The Art of Picking Up

All good, common sense. The sad fact is, though, that a lot of women, maybe even a slim majority, don't really want a nice, polite guy. They want a jerk. Few women will admit to this (although some will), but nearly every man will tell you that he sees it time and time again (whether or not he's personally interested in the woman.)

Over the years, I've experimented with this myself and found that I'm far more likely to get a date from a woman if I treat her a bit rudely, if I exhibit some antisocial behavior. Although this antisocial thing can be overdone, obviously.

I've heard women tell me many times "all men are pigs," when the reality is that these women, as often as not, simply will not date men who aren't pigs.

As the above poster said most of this ought bloody well to be common sense, but "it takes all kinds to make a world"...

One thing that bothers me about this article is that you're placing us in a position of being "targets" like it's all a precision military exercise with strategies to be followed, equipment secured and a list of dos and don'ts. Yes, it's all good fun and it's a nice article, but it really reminds me of a pet peeve of mine:

The whole misunderstanding between men and women and the almost perverse need we have to analyse each other and formulate helpful recipes for happiness.

What you wrote is likely to bring some measure of enlightenment to some of the men out there but it still portrays women as the Other that is foreign, mysterious and unknowable.

Yes, we're weird, we're tough to understand and occasionally we're irrational BUT that's not a reason to turn us into objects to be targeted!

IMHO we need to accept each other's differences a bit more and be willing to live and let live.

At the same time I completely and utterly agree with you on the woeful lack of respect that can be seen in some places and in some occasions. It stems, again, from the objectifying of women -- she's just a fvck so why should I be nice to her.

To all the men out there: we hurt too, we want to be held too and, yes, we too feel passion. But don't be surprised if we're not completely in synch with you and if we don't have the same MO as you.

Vive la differance!

[/soapbox]
[/rant]

RE: Common and Uncommon Sense

With regards to being a “nice guy” (or “nice girl”), I think the problem is that some nice people don’t realize that they unfortunately are doormats. Nice people tend to be TOO giving, then are taken advantage of. However, both persons involved should be both giving, AND taking. I think doormats/nice guys often ignore their own needs and focus on the other person’s needs, and end up getting shortchanged. The solution: learn to recognize your own needs, and if they’re not getting fulfilled...work out the problem or move on.

RE: Rant About women as the other.

With regards to my using the word “target”, I was being facetious. No hidden meanings or objectifications intended.

With regards to women being “the other”, well unfortunately that’s the way many men see us. The way men see women and the way women see women is entirely different. As much as we try to understand the opposite sex, we can only come to a limited level of true understanding because we ARE so wildly different (in several key ways). We don’t understand men just as they don’t understand us. If we did, we wouldn’t spend hours analyzing all the little things they say or don’t say, while trying to find hidden meanings (you know you all do).

But for this reason, I really believe that you are right…the only solution is acceptance of each others differences.

I think the problem is that some nice people don't realize that they unfortunately are doormats.

I think you're right so far as you go. My theory is that the reason women seem to favor jerks is because jerks are almost always seem self-confident, and it is really the confidence that is attractive.

There's a flip side to this coin, though. I think that people (not just women) are so used to seeing confident jerks that they begin to confuse the antisocial behavior itself with confidence, and then begin to seek out the antisocialness and stop looking for the confidence directly.

The fact is, though, that the jerks tend to be very unconfident underneath (thus the typical possessiveness, jealousy, etc). The confidence is a pretense, a defence mechanism.

There are lots of guys who are not jerks or doormats, and who have real confidence, and who get discounted by women anyway.

Of course, this is all in the context of "picking up." I didn't address this before because the article specifically stated that it wasn't talking about one-night-stand pickups, but I suspect there's a confusion here.

What other kind of pickups are there? If I go to a bar or something and pick up a woman, I'm not intending to find a lasting dating partner. If it works out that way, then great, but it's not the goal.

If I want to find someone to date, to have some kind of relationship with, then I don't go to bars/parties/whatever. I look around when I am doing the things I enjoy doing on their own, and I find women who immediately have a mutual interest with me. I never thought of that as a pickup per se. Maybe I'm getting all hung up on definitions here, though.

Oh, and I just have to ask. You talk about the importance of decent shoes. You're right about this, but it's always baffled me. Maybe you can explain.

What is the deal with shoes? Why are they so important? You can make other fashion errors without grave consequences, but shoes seem to have some kind of special meaning that eludes me.

I agree that a lot of confident guys really aren’t confident. But that comes out eventually, and the more people you meet the better you get at figuring out who’s confident and who’s posing. And even then, we’re all still bound to screw up every once in a while.

“There are lots of guys who are not jerks or doormats, and who have real confidence, and who get discounted by women anyway.”

That’s true, however, everybody gets rejected at some point in time no matter how wonderful or awful their character. Attraction is a funny thing, even when everything is perfectly in place things can still go awry. However, I strongly believe that when a really decent, truly confident guy (or woman) gets rejected it’s because the other person is isn’t similarly confident. Being approached by someone with true confidence is a scary thing to someone who doesn’t have it. Being scared causes people to retreat to something (or someone) that appears on their level and who, in a sense, feels “safe” (i.e. your under-confident jerk). Since many single adults (especially women) do suffer from some form of low self-esteem/confidence or just plain fear for one reason or another (oh yeah, I’m expecting backlash on this one), the truly confident, stable ones get SHAFTED. It’s unfair, but since when has life been fair?

Regarding the confusion around “picking-up”, it can occur anywhere, and in the most wholesome of events. Often attempts are made in bars/clubs, and my experiences are what spawned this article. However not all picking up in bars/clubs is purely for the sake of a one-night stand. If it were, most people would go home with each other, not with each other’s phone number. (Yes, some go home with their target, but those aren’t the people this article addresses.) While phone numbers can also lead to one-night stands, they can also lead to conversations. And conversations can lead to more conversations, and dating, or cutting off contact promptly. Ya never know what’s going to happen when you call…and that’s part of the fun.

Finally, ask a million women about why shoes are important and you’ll get a million different answers. For some reason this small detail is actually not that small. Maybe it has to do with many women having shoe fetishish, a la Carrie Bradshaw from Sex and the City. Who knows? But one consensus appears to be true: they say something about who you are. But HOW they say it is widely open to interpretation. For example (I’m speaking only for myself here), if you’re wearing a pair of badly scuffed shoes with a spiffy outfit, it makes you look like you’re someone who doesn’t normally take care of themselves, but are trying to fake a good appearance for the sake of picking up. Basically, like you’re pretending for one night to be something you’re not. Please refer to to #14 regarding this issue.

Being approached by someone with true confidence is a scary thing to someone who doesn't have it.

I never thought of that. Although I'm not the most confident person around, I've always loved it when a very confident woman approaches me. I never would have thought of being approached as scary, since the person being approached is squarely in the power seat.

Maybe I'm secretly a "bottom".

But what you say makes sense now that I think of it. It does seem that women (and probably men, but women are the only experience I have) often have difficulty knowing how to handle rejecting an approach gracefully.

For the record, the proper way (in my opinion) is to look the man square on with a friendly smile and say something like "You're sweet but no, thank you," and then avoiding interacting with the guy for a while so he doesn't think you're playing hard to get.

You and Aretha Franklin said it best when you talk about respect. But let us remind all those women out there that respect is a two-way street. One must give and receive. Not to mention respect oneself. The art of picking up should not be the main goal of getting the number or the guy/girl, but a sense of compatibility.

At the end of an evening if you feel that you had to lie or mislead a person to get that number then all respect is loss. Honesty, without a shadow of a doubt is the most important form of respect to give to a person and you. Too often people get lost in the “game” of picking up and loose sight of why they are doing it in the first place. We are all fragile creatures and if you’re out to just pick-up for the fun of it, remember that there may be consequences.

I would like to add just one more rule to your guide, if you don’t mind….. Not everyone going to a bar/club is there to pick up. Not all of the world are running on hormones (okay, I am, but other’s aren’t) looking to find their next mate. Some people just go to bars/clubs to enjoy the music, dance and be with friends. A rejection may not always be you but due to situations like wanting to spend time with friends or the fact that you may already have a mate. The nice girl/guy just may have bad timing, so when there is a rejection its sometimes not you.

And lastly, as a woman, I too have no clue about the shoe thing but many of my female friends have agreed with the conclusion that a pair a shoes tells a lot about a man. So for all those men who have bad footwear, there is hope for ya because I probably wouldn’t even notice if you had feet if I were really interested in you.

if you feel that you had to lie or mislead a person to get that number then all respect is loss

This is the first rule. If you're being deceptive, then you're playing a different game altogether, you playa', you.

But let's face it, there's a lot of marketing that you have to do. Not exactly lying, but not being painfully honest either.

The shoes are a great example. If I wear natty old sneakers all the time, except when I'm going out on the town, is that deceptive or is it showing that I recognize how to dress appropriately? Well, it's both. I hate getting all dressed up, but I'm not about to show up at the club in jeans and a t-shirt, either.

I think the most important thing to be honest about is intentions. Don't fake love if what you're feeling is lust. And vice versa. Don't fake interest when you have none, even if you might bruise an ego.

Gagan wrote a lovely article, but I don't agree that the jerkiness of jerks comes out eventually, if by evenutally she means before a few years of marriage and one or two children. One of the biggest problems women have is evaluating the character of a man. In my opinion, the best thing a woman can do, starting as soon after they meet as possible, is to let the guy experience that she is connected to a community of people who care about her...friends, family, etc. (even if she has to partly construct this community)and most jerks will go away. The relevance of this to the pickup is that a woman who has a plan for doing this is more willing to take a chance and say yes. "Yes" is an important part of the pickup process too. In my limited experience, women in Europe are far more likely to say yes than in the US, and then do their evaluation after they have some information to evaluate.

Great article. Whole-hearted agreement with #2 (slurring, stumbling drunks are not impressive), #6 (R-E-S-P-E-C-T), #8, (who gives a shit about your money), #10 (be funny), #14 (be yourself).

Further, hats off to you for actually *admitting* one of our strange contradictions: making it impossible *not* to check out our bods / how *dare* you check me out like that! It's all very delicate and hard to explain. Later, if a relationship develops, it'll be "how dare you check out HER bod!?" but that's probably another article.

An ex of mine didn't have money and this really bothered him. He had great ideas, plans and career aspirations that he was convinced would bring him the lifestyle and income he thought was important to chicks. He could not bring himself to believe me when I said I didn't give a flying frig and if he thinks *that* highly of the almighty buck, he'd prob change *so* much I'd lose interest anyway. This guy also had a shoe fixation (for guys). I never did, still don't. I do understand about not wearing sloppy, mud-caked trainers with a spiffy new suit, contrast and all, but really, I've never quite "gotten" the man-shoes issue. Above-mentioned ex would regularly point out "looks" that he liked on guys, including the shoes, which I'd never noticed 'til he mentioned it.

My job means I work inside bars all the time, and I've seen the mating ritual repeat itself countless times. Based on what I see, both persons appear to be doing the best-face forward thing and neither person is getting the "real deal" on what that person's really like. They're *both* posing. Both showing a very basic dislike of him/herself or such low self-confidence that all they can do is fiddle with the smoke and mirrors enough to maybe get a lead for a phone call.

The swaggering dudes with the appearance of confidence seem to get toyed with by the girls...the bravado amuses them. They joke amongst themselves as they urge our hero to continue the entertainment.

I've also seen genuine attempts at contact get quashed by girls who eat them alive. They think they're all that and they don't give a shit if you know it, because you're not the one they have their eye on, after all, so your opinion, and even your personhood, are moot.

And yay for the people who just go to bars to be with their friends. How many long-lasting, meaningful relationships are sparked by a meeting at a smoky bar?

Just detached observations.

Anyway, Gagan, excellent treatment of the subject.

Ai yi yi, thanks for the remedial primer on dating. I don't know, but I've never felt the need to analyze such stuff so agonizingly in depth. The need to justify or rather to come to terms with rejection or the fear there of. Who cares, go on believing you are wonderful and you will be. You are doing no harm to life if no life is harmed. Do not allow others over generalized opinions especially on dating/mating to interfere with who you are. Go on girls/boys and do just as you would've prior to reading this quasi-psychological diatribe. All circumstances are as unique as the players who act within them. Thank God, we are not so predictable and plastic that there is no recipe for dating/mating success. Unbelievable that someone should consider themselves so important as to suggest that they are the authority on such a subject. Ye Gads!

What does it all matter...life goes on.