I've known quite a number of men who go on about their "Nice Guy" problem.
You know the Nice Guy. He's kind, he's sensitive, he respects women. He doesn't think solely with his cock. He's madly in love with the Nice Girl, and is in state of limbo, waiting for the day when she realizes Nice Guy is the one for her. In the meanwhile, it means being alone on Saturday nights, trying to remember what sex feels like, and wondering why you try so hard to be nice yet never get rewarded for it. Will there come a day when you're more than just a “good friend?”
You know the Nice Girl too. She is the kind, attractive, intelligent and funny girl who is dating the Jerk Boyfriend. Repeat the Nice Guy's mantra: “He doesn't deserve you.” Jerk Boyfriend treats her like something scraped from the floor of a bus station washroom. He doesn't appreciate her. Hell, he might steal from her, cheat on her, give her a disease, get her in trouble with the law and a few credit bureaus. He might even be openly abusive. Nice Girl will not leave him even though there is no compelling reason to stay with him. When she's “fed up,” she leaves him for a few days but keeps coming back, agreeing to give the Jerk an infinite supply of one last chances. The one time she honest to goodness dumps the Jerk Boyfriend, the Nice Guy's hopes soar that this is finally it…but then she finds another Jerk Boyfriend like the last one instead.
Through all this, Nice Guy patiently listens on the phone while she cries away the night over Jerk Boyfriend's latest escapade, and maybe even contemplates suicide. The Nice Guy picks up the Nice Girl when Jerk Boyfriend abandons her 20 miles south of the Middle of Nowhere at four in the morning. The Nice Guy's shoulder is constantly soaked because of her crying there. The Nice Guy would cut off a finger if he could get the Nice Girl to go out with him, but she won't. She “considers you a friend” and “doesn't want to ruin what we have.” Instead, she continues to date Jerk Boyfriends even though the Nice Girl's Level-Headed Best Friend might be urging her to go with Nice Guy instead. The Nice Guy is slowly being driven insane by the Nice Girl as he asks the heavens why she just doesn't get it.
Recently, the Nice Guy phenomenon has caught the attention of pop culture. I've seen webpages dedicated to Nice Guys, and there's a lot of sympathy built up for them. I even used to be a Nice Guy. And yet, I have absolutely no sympathy for Nice Guys. Zero. You whiny bunch of losers deserve everything you get.
That was harsh, wasn't it?
Sorry, it's true, and you need to be told. Because like the Nice Girl, you just don't get it.
If you find yourself in the situations I described above, you are a Nice Guy, which, as we all know, is a synonym for “Doormat.” And as long as you are one, you will never, ever, get the Nice Girl, and you are severely compromising your ability to attract any woman. All of your efforts are wasted, and the real irony is that the Nice Girl isn't, and she's not really worth having to begin with anyway.
Explain to me exactly why the Nice Girl should get together with the Nice Guy. Because Nice Guy will treat her with respect? Ah, but you do that already, so there is no reason. The Jerk Boyfriend provides the fantastic sex and the thrill of being arrested with his stash when the cops kick in the door. The Nice Guy provides the sympathetic ear and bail money. She's got two men fulfilling different roles. The arrangement is perfect, it doesn't need fixing in her mind. Yeah, she kinda wishes that her boyfriend wouldn't share needles, making it necessary for frequent visits to a walk-in clinic for the HIV test, but what the hey? Nice Guy is always there to drive her and hold her hand, and maybe even buy dinner afterwards.
In the world of addiction counseling, they refer to something called a “facilitator.” This is a person who supports the addict, however unwittingly. A person who lets an alcoholic stay with them and drink the days away because “they'll die on the street otherwise” is a facilitator. The facilitator is well intentioned, but in fact they just make it easier for the addict to continue behaving the way they do, and ultimately contribute to the addict's vice. That's what a Nice Guy does. He makes it easier for a Nice Girl to be a Nice Girl. Nice Girl will never change as long as Nice Guy will wipe up the spills for her.
I know this, because I used to be a Nice Guy, and spent my time chasing Nice Girls. No, I never did land one. I finally learned my lesson when I was courting an extremely attractive young woman. She was intelligent, compassionate, sexually uninhibited too. Oh, I wanted this one. But she was also--to use the clinical psychiatric term--severely fucked in the head, more messed up then an Alabama trailer after tornado season. Her perception of herself and the world around was so off that she probably couldn't recognize the above description of her, even with my name attached to this.
The breaking point came one night we were talking about a very emotionally charged subject. She got me talking about my something very important to me, kept pushing me for details, which I gave her, and got me so emotional about it, that I started to cry. She gave me a deep, sympathetic hug. And as I started bawling, I suddenly realized that there was no way in hell I was ever going to be with this woman.
Why? Because she was uncertain who I was until I started crying. Earlier I showed sensitivity that hinted I was a potential Nice Guy. But I also let her know that her body was certainly a source of fascination for me, so that showed signs of Jerk Boyfriend. The mixed signals confused her. She had to get me into one category or the other, and she did. When the tears started rolling, now she didn't have to respect me anymore. She had the two parts of the equation, and I fell on the side of the clean-up man while the other guy got to run around and have all the amoral fun.
At least until I wised up. See, the problem with Nice Guys is that they're the same as Nice Girls. There's a pattern of abuse going on. Nice Girls never recognize the pattern of abuse they go through, even though Nice Guy is always pointing it out to them. “You know, many women live healthy, rich lives and don't need to make up stories about walking into walls to explain away their bruises.” Nice Guys also never learn that when Nice Girls sob “You were right, you were right about everything” doesn't mean “and I'm going to change things now that I know this.” She's using you for a specific reason, and like a chump you keep on giving it to her.
Now, Nice Guys reading this, because they really aren't too bright, are probably assuming that I'm advocating being the Jerk Boyfriend instead. Not at all. Jerk Boyfriends are indeed scum. It's fun to be one when you're young, but as you get older, the women get smarter. Think a woman in her late 30s who is the CFO of an insurance company is gonna put up with that shit? No, the women at that age who will tolerate Jerk Boyfriends are truly bleak, and Jerks know it, but they can't get anything better. There is a price to be paid for the cowboy antics of your 20s.
There are also those who will interpret what I'm saying is that what women want is to be treated like dirt. I am not saying that either. What I am saying is that people who cannot love and respect themselves cannot truly love and respect others. The failure of the Nice Girl and Guy is the failure to love and respect themselves, and that's very serious, it's something people should seek help for. But if that help is not accepted after 10 tries, as far I'm concerned the Helper has done plenty and now it's up to the Recipient to get off their ass while the Helper moves on to someone smart enough to listen. By the same token, if the Helper keeps helping after 100 tries and a large financial investment, they're a lost cause too.
They say love should be unconditional. That's…stupid. Love is too precious to be unconditional. For example, love should be formed under the basis that the other person doesn't beat you, steal from you until you're destitute, and most importantly, does not abuse the love you give them. This is what a Nice Girl does. To tell you the truth, I don't really see any reason to land a Nice Girl. If she can't figure out that she deserves respect and is worthy of a real man (or real woman, if that's what's going on), who needs her?
If I were to treat my current girlfriend badly, well, I live 18 floors up, but I could die 18 floors down. I totally respect that about her. Not that I'm afraid of her, but I respect the fact that she loves herself enough to not tolerate lots of shit. I hate women who are pushovers. All of my girlfriends have been tough. A lot tougher than me, now that I think about it. And I feel that a woman who can and will put you through a plate glass window for messing with her, especially if you're her boyfriend, is a real woman.
If you want to break the Nice Guy/Nice Girl cycle, you can't be a pushover. Nobody, man or woman respects a doormat. When I worked in a restaurant, you know who made the most tip money? The servers who were borderline hostile. Know who made the least? The asskissers. If you don't love and respect yourself, nobody else will. Nice Girls do not truly respect Nice Guys, and I believe that even Nice Guys, for all their supposed patience and understanding, don't respect Nice Girls either. You think you can play psychiatrist to this basket case, and be the one to change her, don't you? For all her faults she's not a puzzle to unravel, Freud boy. She's a person too.
If you really must land the Nice Girl, the only way to do it is to put a price tag on your time. She calls you at four in the morning because she knows you're there and will always get her out of any jam. This time, tell her you're asleep but will be there in the morning, or at least around noon. Make it clear that you're no longer the Get Out of Jail Free Card. If she really needs help--but more importantly wants help--by all means give it to her. But if she doesn't take it, shrug your shoulders and walk away. Make it clear that your patience is not infinite, and if she wants your help, she has to start helping herself. It probably won't work, but hey, a real woman will notice you're a man who doesn't give out your love so foolishly, which means your love is worth something. Get the picture? And Nice Girls, the same goes for you. All you have to do to get respect and love is to decide to be worthy of it.
We are taught to be giving and forgiving. These things are good things to be. But we should also be taught emotional triage. Give your love abundantly to those who appreciate and respect it, and the rest will just have to be ignored if there isn't any left over. We can't save a person determined to drown. So there comes a time when we have to stop rescuing them, and tell them to swim instead.
Jester thinks Rusty’s trying to tell us something.
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I have to agree 100% seeing as I'm a reformed Nice Guy.
So yes, while I'm still a good Guy, but I'm a bad boy as well, and no that does not equate the Jerk! I've found that
women act differently now too. They see you as nice and caring, but your not a Doormat. Basically I give and demand respect.
My problem is that I'm only the nice guy before and after the relationship, while I'm a total bastard during the relationship, when I feel confident of the other's love...
Well, that and I'm too shy for my own good. :)
To all the Nice guys out there, who want to get with the Nice girls, the advice in the article is bang on! A Nice guy becomes a much better catch when he developes a spine. Most women with their heads screwed on properly dig a guy with enough "nice" to feel safe, but also enough "naughty" to make things interesting.
Yeah, been there, too... I cured myself from nice-guy-syndrome by moving on to become a full-blown sociopath. I hate you all, by the way.
right on the money. i'll be passing this on to a buddy of mine.
-hza
"Jerk Boyfriend"
I am an advocate for the Nice Guy. I have a "nice guy" boyfriend....now, however, not all stories end on a happy note where the nice girl hooks up with
the nice guy, damn it took him forever!
it didnt have to do with his "spine" or that he was yella-bellied, it had to do with timing, emotion etc... so to all those nice guys
screw those that say you need to change... better yet f*%k them! be yourself, girl love that
and be presistant...maybe shes not the nice girl, but the dumb girl and ill be the first to admit it,
i was the dumb girl... didnt see all the signs of a potentially rewarding, fulfilling relationship til i left him
for the summer... and now i dont want anyone else... just say no to change... get a spine for other reasons, but leave this love/relationshion stuff to the real you...
I read this article because my best friend of 12 years sent it to me because he knew how I felt about my Nice girl.
I thought damn, that was so true. The reason that I may be a reformed Nice guy is thatI finally got a girl friend and she made me feel good, not by sexual acts, but because she told me she was attracted to me. I felt good. Guys there is someone there for you, but you don't have to be a doormat for her to realize it.
The big thing with the nice guy is that he holds on to what the nice girl should be and he strives to make himself better so that he can get her.
He fails to realize that by doing this he far exceeds anything that the nice girl was and that he really does deserve much more. Same thing has happened to me and my nice girl. If ever she needed something I would jump, but in recent years I have looked at myself and how much work I have done for my life and I see a mature man in myself. All I see in my nice girl, is the same immature girl that she was when we met. And now she realizes that her jerk boy friend is going nowhere.
That is why Shiva, I hope you realize that you may be in a very precarious position, because if he realizes one day that he is worth it, he will leave you. Never be a nice guy, be a friend, but if you are a friend don't look for more.
The person who wrote the Nice Guy, Nice Girl essay (for lack of a better term) has hit the nail on the head. I wrote a short essay on "Nice Guys Finish Last" and I have to admit, this one blew mine out of the water. Although, I did write mine after watching a Jerk Boyfriend win back the Nice Girl. I was infuriated when "Nice Guys Finish Last" so mine isnt as organized as this one. However, I applaud this man. His organization made it infinitely clearer, and I hope more like it come out.
I am a reformed Nice Guy, and am currently a Good Guy. I must say, I am having the most fun in my life. With the way things are going, I know I will find a woman worthy of me, but I am not pressed on finding one. Just let the chips fall where they may. Hopefully Nice Guys everywhere will wake up, but until they do, these essays will need to keep coming. So keep em coming.
-Garrett Hols-
Virginia Tech
I had read an article about nice guys finishing last before that was written by my friend and I thought he had it down. Your article however, just plain nailed it. I can't help but agree with this article 100%.
I've been in the nice guy position before and it does suck. I'm no longer one of those nice guys, I'm just good guy enjoying life and letting things happen and it's working out great for me. So for all those nice guys out there, take note of this article and do something with yourselves. Great Article.
Joshua Plinski
Virgina Commonwealth University
at first i thought you were just being a complet cock sucker, but the second half i completley agree with, i gotta give you props on puttin that out there, being a nice guy is one thing but you can't let a girl, or anyone for that matter walk all over you. peace, one.
Welp, I read over your comments and then comments of many others with the same issue. I believe that Nice Guys to get walked all over but that is only because they respect the girl they are after and will wait and save the best for last. When you described yourself, you were never the nice guy. You still had the same motive of "getting into a girl's pants" and felt you deserve some sort of reward for being nice. Hate to tell you, but people are supposed to be nice and those who truly are dont need rewards to tell them this. You, unfortunately, never learned your lesson, you just gave up and became that bad guy and will be nothing more until you find the girl that will lower to that level. The nice girl does see how great you are, but does not realize until later in her life what is best for her. And if any guy tries to pass as the nice guy, but really just wants to get a piece of ass, the girl sees that and will never go for you. I am sorry that none of these people have learned any lessons in life and will never realize how to be selfless. Hopefully every one will find the right person some day and when they do, dont expect a big old pat on the back for being nice.
you know all that article did was piss me off!ive been a nice guy for all my life.AND WILL NEVER CHANGE!!!to all you people out there that think you have to change and turn into an asshole your wrong.im a t-shirt and blue jeans type guy i know damn good and well that im not the best looking guy in the world.but i know one thing is for certain im going to be the same guy fifty years from now i will not change. i have had one serious relationship i was set up with this girl by my best friend.when i first laid my eyes on her i thought she was out of my league actually i was pissed off at my friend at first for setting me up with somebody so gorgeous.but fell in love with me for who i was it didnt last very long though two months later it was over just as quickly as it started.and your next question is why? well ill tell you because her ex boyfriend who just happened to be her first serious relationship and be to be honest he was her first everything you know what i mean by that. just used her for sex he told her that after they were together for a year and a half i just happened to meet her about 6 months after it happened.she dumped me basically because she was scared of a commitment and thought i was going to hurt her to.so thanks to the asshole i get screwed!my point and i do have one is if your a nice guy and your reading dont give up dont ever give up.your dream girl is out there and you can find her i found mine. "but then you could say but john your not with her anymore" which is a good point but my dad told me somthing the day she broke up with me her name is cassie by the way long brown hair beautiful brown eyes she was incredibly smart great sense of humor and a smile that could light up a room.but back to what my dad said he told its better to have loved than to have never loved at all.so nice guys dont change dont worry about what this asshole wrote john s.
Every woman loves a fascist...
...and they do!
>so thanks to the asshole i get screwed!
If I'm not mistaken that sentence should read "So, thanks to the asshole, I didn't get screwed.
"Hi, I'm Scorpian_2 and I have a nice guy problem."
That was me, a number of years ago. Yes, I'm man enough to admit it. I wasn't the typical nice guy, as I had attempted to date other, women, but I suffered from the Nice Guy syndrome, and thus, they were attracted to how nice I was. My solution was: FUCK EVERYONE! Make my own opinions, be neutral, but argue my point despite the fact it may not please people, and just fuckin go nuts with the women, make them laugh, make them cry (tears of joy) and make them notice you. It's sink or swim time, and I can't hold my breath THAT LONG. So to the nice guys out there: "YOU WUSSIES NEED TO GET SOME BALLS" Just be a presence and a person, and you will get a woman, not the one you may currently want, but you are rejecting yourself, as she probably doesn't "feel the same way." To the Nice Girls: "I hate you!" You should learn that although it's kinda sexy for a guy to be a rebel, there's a difference between rebelling, and being a fucking moron! Get a life, cuz your boyfriend clearly has one that you don't actually want, if he pisses you off by living it. You cannot change a person, and divorce is certain future for you if you stick it out.
Nice guys, just please, for you own sake, just try to do something with your lives, instead of being a shoulder to cry on. Or your just going to be, quite literally, a wet blanket to yourself.
-G'night!
Nice guys finsih last and that's final! I got my G/F by kicking ass, beating up the jerks and kicking down their door at night to kick more ass. That's right, get a secret identity and kick butt. NICE GUYS KICK ASS!! and if no one agrees then SCREW IT! do what u think is right! but nice guys of the world MUST get a secret identity and kick ass. otherwise.. ur just a lame nice guy. so... ya... party...
This essay is right on. I have yet to read anything as wise or powerful as this. This has put something new into my nice guy head, i will have to reevaluate everything. Somethings work somethings don't but we'll see in the end. Thank you to the great man who wrote this.
I agree with this article. However I would hate to think that guys might misconstrue it to think that women want to be mistreated. I am a Nice Girl and I have been in relationships where I was ignored and mistreated and I was smart enough to get out, even though I am a "nice goody two shoes type of girl". Girls want a MAN who is attentive, has family values, and is romantic! I also think girls want to know that their guy is sexually attracted to them. Flirtation goes a long way... that and a confident demeanor. ~Anonymous Nice Girl ;)
I use to be in a relationship with a girl like that, or so i thought. I was just the doormat for her to step on when ever she needed to wipe her feet of some guy. Wake up nice guys, no girl is worth that.
While I understand where this article is coming from in some ways, I don't think joining force with these "jerks" is going to help in the long run. Granted being the nice guy can be translated into being a doormat, but that's only if you allow it to be that way. In my case, while being nice has prevented me from getting the girls I've pursued, I'll be damned if I'm going to sit there and listed to her cry over some nimrod that walks all over her, my respect and sympathy factor for these girls are minimal. Basically I keep it neutral - don't do me any favors, no hard feelings about not being interested in me. Girls like that just aren't worth it. In the long run things will happen, it just might take a little longer. No way do I turn to the dark side, because you never know if when it's going to come back to haunt you. Usually people that have to put up that much of a front has self-esteem issues and are a dime a dozen. Stay yourself and stand strong, take no mess from noone and don't let the man hold you down.
peace
First of all, chicks suck. And I'm not talking about ALL chicks, just AMERICAN CHICKS, which is less than 5% of the entire world-chick population, just so you know. You "guys" ('cuz you ain't ladies) are at the bottom rung of the ladder and are doing nothing to climb up. You're being left behind by the masses of quality chicks who would never dress like a man, wearing Abercombie and Fitch and getting drunk and loud and stupid at parties, basically trying to act like a man instead of a woman. Yeah, there will always be a guy willing to fuck you, but not a guy who perceives women as WOMEN. At least half of you need to get in the gym and get a better pair of shoes. Consider this: According to the United States National Institutes of Health (NIH) , just over half of American women are overweight or obese. The findings of a 1998 study are that 25.7% of American women over 20 years of age are overweight and an additional 25% are obese. You think I want to have sex with you, let alone MARRY you?!?!?!
According to data supplied by the United States Census Bureau and the Dept. of Immigration and Naturalization (INS), the divorce rate for marriages between American men and American women is 48%, and the divorce rate for marriages between American men and foreign women is 20%. Man, is this just a coincidence? I don't think so! And the divorce rate would be much higher if guys weren't afraid of these fucking fat cunts taking all their money! American women can have attitudes that are difficult to deal with. They are often demanding and hard to please. I say we all boycott American chicks and see how long this attitude lasts. In this day of mass immigration, it won't be hard to find a willing to please, attractive woman who isn't just interested in your money. Should we even bother trying to get laid with a bitch who's expecting to take all of our money to get fat and buy fat-chicks' clothes anyway? I think not. And if women want equal rights, why can't they buy guys a drink or pay for a date also? Why should everything be so one-sided? If American women want us to treat them like a woman, then they should ACT like a woman. American chicks want to play too many games and have too many hangups. Get a life! This is why you're getting passed up for REAL chicks
R. Gelkofski:
You write: "While I understand where this article is coming from in some ways, I don't think joining force with these "jerks" is going to help in the long run."
In the article you apparently just read, I wrote the following:
"Now, Nice Guys reading this, because they really aren’t too bright, are probably assuming that I’m advocating being the Jerk Boyfriend instead."
Care to prove my point any further?
Jason
I disagree completely. If you're a nice guy, like me, don't change yourself for her. If she can't accept you, move on.
It's a turn off to be always too nice and well as being always to selfish. Being shocked leads to attraction.
I am a Nice Girl. Or at least I was. I'm still too phlegmatic for my own good, but at least I can now recognise the Jerk Boyfriend (*shudder*) and stay well away. Infuriated with Jerk Boyfriends who treated me like a TOY, I found myself a Nice Guy. I did not work. Just a message to all you Nice Guys out there, in my experience Nice Guys CANNOT have a healthy relationship with a Nice Girl. They're both too insecure and phlegmatic too get anywhere. If there is no-one in the realtionship who is willing to initiate anything or make a decision for fear of domniating the other (just because they didn't make the decision it doesn't mean that they'll be unhappy with it). So the Nice Girl gets frustrated because she wants to be dominated (I'm not sure of the Nice Guy's perspective), and wants out. Break-up is difficult because Nice Guys are TOO NICE and Nice Girls don't like hurting Nice Guys. So if you are a Nice Girl's Nice Guy, don't look for anything more than friendship unless you can suddenly become a bit more choleric.
Oh, and all you Jerk Boyfriends should find yourselves Jerk Girlfriends and stay away from us Nice Girls you scum.
To all you Nice Girls out there: break the cycle, but not with a Nice Guy. I did it, had a hard time and ended up 6 months later with a Jerk Boyfriend again worse than I'd been with before. Find yourself someone who respects you, but not someone so nice that they don't respect your need for someone else to have initiative sometimes. You'll be a great deal happier for it.
Thanks to Jason for reminding me why I hate being a Nice Girl. :-)
-Isha
i think most nice guys who finish last give up to easily. some things take time in life like love, but u got to use commen sense and give up on certian people.if u truelyy r a nice person every thing will fall in place in time
So how do you change from being a nice guy?
Cause last time I was the nice guy, ie, being the shoulder to cry on, the one to tell her it'll be ok, I got screwed over. What do you have to do to walk the line between asshole and asskisser?
I believe I covered this, but here it is again:
Put a price tag on yourself. You put a price on the work that you do, otherwise you wouldn't do it. Put a price on your emotions. If you are not repaid in genuine emotion, distance yourself immediately.
I bought a cell phone for a bitch one time because she needed a phone to call the police in case her ex-boyfriend tried to stalk her, and all I got was a $2100 phone bill. The bitch called everybody but the fucking police. So after so many years of nice guy syndrome, I have accepted the cold simple truth: I am a doormat and a chump and nothing in the forseable future appears to change that fact. So I have friends and everything but now I refuse to think with little head period. All the women in my life have a page number on their foot and a staple in their navel. Fucking pathetic, you say? Hell yes, I say but at least now I don't deluse myself with false hopes, and I still have money in my pocket.
The trick is to be an ass*ole initially, then go back to bein a nice guy, then when the girl bcome a little gay you go back to bein an ass*ole to them :P
The fact that I've always thought of myself a nice guy is true. In my view I could never be disrespectful or insulting to women because that would mean in my eyes at least that I'm a jerk. This was mainly my problem, which is why I was always "The Good friend" as Jason put it. However, around senior year I wisened up. I figured that if they didn't need me I didn't need them and I think I began to follow some of the advice Jason mentioned in this article. I wouldn't be the shoulder to cry on but I would listen and still be respectful because to me those things are important whether it be friendship or relationship.
Even now, me and my girlfriend get along great because we are always there for each other. As friends and as a couple. Because not only are we identicle to each other in personality, interests, and attitude; we also can relate to each other in many situations and can tell each other anything because we trust and love each other enough to know that we don't need to hide anything. If anything I call that love and I stand by that.
I have always gone with the feeling that they will like you for just being you. If I've learned anything in my relationship with my girlfriend it's that you should just be yourself. You don't need to be any different to them. The thing about nice guy's are is that they're afraid of becoming the "jerks." It's this fear that drives them to be overly nice and that is their downfall. Whereas, my girlfriend loves me for who I'am as I love her for who she is. Neither of us need to change because in out minds things are perfect the way they are. So what am I saying exactly? Just be yourself, don't try to be overly nice to please women and to prove you're not a jerk. If they can't love you for who you are then they don't deserve your time. Remember your a human being not their personal doormat.
Though you can be a nice guy in the fact that you respect women and not hurt them physically or mentally. Plus I think the only time you should help is if they really need it for example if she would want to talk about something or just being there to listen to her and give her some helpful advice.
I'm not saying you should be the problem solver, I'm saying that you can listen and give them advice on how to fix their problem. Whether they follow your advice or not is up to them. If they don't want to follow your advice then just shrug it off and nove on, there's no point thinking about something that just won't happen. So in this situation forget if you have a crush on her, be the friend she needs now and think about what might happen later on.
Maybe I've lost track of what Jason was saying, all I'm saying is that there are times when being a nice guy can be a good thing but not in other's. If anything you should be yourself because I'm sure deep down everyone is a nice person inside. Even some of those people who think their bad a**es can be really nice once you get to know them.
Good job Jason on a job well done, this article was very well thought out and you make a lot of interesting and good points.
I am constantly told what a "great guy" I am, and how any girl would be lucky to get with me, yet I watch them get treated like trash by their jerk boyfriends. I am just now getting started becoming the Good Guy instead of the doormat nice guy. Thanks everyone.
You know I was never the bad ass in my younger years or the nice guy and I still did not get laid. In order for a person to get laid in their younger years you need to be the fuck face that almost all girls seem to love. However, this does not stay like this forever all you nice guys out there. You see, those girls who go for billy bad ass in there teens and twenties pay for it the rest of their lives. Most of the girls who date the fuck faces over a period of years accumulate many kids, have no money, and have a huge amount of debt. Where guys like me and hopefully the rest of you nice guys get a good education, good job, and make a lot of money.
The funny thing is once the nice guys have there life set like I mentioned above, those same girls who turned you down now want you. You see the girls finally realize that there bad ass ex-husbands are going to spend life in jail or are going to be complete dead-beats forever, and they aint coming back. They also realize that they are not going to have a great family, house, car, and overall quality of life. At this point the girl finally realizes that these bad asses are not good news. But by this time it is too late for the girl because the nice guys like us are not going to date them. Because frankly the nice guys dont want a girl who has numerous kids,no money, and who has been fucked up in the head by the bad asses. So, my advice to all of the nice guys is to let sucess be your revenge against bad asses and nieve girls. Make your pain and suffering motivate you to do well in life. I now have a couple girls that I date. Nothing serious, but the way I look at it, I have a lot of making up to do for all of those years not getting any. And all of you nice guys i am sure will eventually have a lot of making up to do too. And for god sake remember this too, "dont take girls too seriously, the whole dating game is a giant joke, relationships are overated and overally stressfull, have fun and put you the nice guy first. Some of you may think what I just said to be harsh, but can you blame me or any other nice guy? I dont think so either. later.
Jason, you have explained nothing of use to anyone but how hypocritical and whiny the "Nice Guy" can become. If these girls- as you dwell on- are not worth the effort, or don't "know" you until you start to cry, why bother and waste your time big guy? Simply move on, What could you possibly be obtaining useful from this relationship? If these "Nice Girls" have no interesting qualities besides a I'm sure your not sticking around for the quality of coverstaion. I'll tell you why you make tent in this abusive relationship, you want some ass. So how different is the "nice guy" from the "jerk boyfriend" anyway? You both seem to have the same intensions, simply different courses of actions. Suck it up, stop crying, stop blaming the fact that you suck at social discourse with women and working to build a quality relatioship because you are a confirmed "nice guy." Your not in the relationship for the good coversation my friend, or the level of intellectual betterment. Your in it for the two fine slabs of fat she straining to carry behind her. So I suggest you get your lazy-porn-addicted- ass up and spread your wings to find a woman and stop wasting our time bitching about how you can't get a girl. Do all us alleged "Nice Guys" a favor.
Jason, you have explained nothing of use to anyone but how hypocritical and whiny the "Nice Guy" can become.
Most Nice Guys don't realize this about themselves and need to be told. I think telling them is useful.
If these girls- as you dwell on- are not worth the effort, or don't "know" you until you start to cry, why bother and waste your time big guy? Simply move on,
She will never know me, tears or no. When I started bawling, she did not gain any great insight into me. I gained great insight into her. And I did move on, as explained in the article. And that is my advice to all Nice Guys, though as your response continues you've decided to ignore that and claim that bit of wisdom for yourself.
What could you possibly be obtaining useful from this relationship?
There is no relationship. In fact, there never really was. I have had no contact with this person in over two years. Never attempted any. Through the grapevine I have heard she is still a wreck. Too bad for her.
So how different is the "nice guy" from the "jerk boyfriend" anyway?
Jerk Boyfriend has the Nice Girl. Nice Guy does not.
Suck it up, stop crying, stop blaming the fact that you suck at social discourse with women and working to build a quality relatioship because you are a confirmed "nice guy."
You advice comes several years too late, I already figured it out for myself, thank you very much. Try giving that article another read.
find a woman and stop wasting our time bitching about how you can't get a girl. Do all us alleged "Nice Guys" a favor.
You know, I must apologize for making this article too long, as it seems to be beyond most people to read all the way through. You did catch the reference to "my girlfriend," did you not?
Never act like me!!!, I just lost my boy friend, because I was a real pushover, every mess he did, I accepted and keep going, the result : he just dumps me!!!!...follow what this article says and you will never get dumps by a guy, same thing for u guys, the rule is simple, respect your self, and they will respect you, giving too much and accepting everything does not means love it means STUPID, and no body loves a stupid girl or guy !
What it all boils down to is selfishness. It is the key to happiness. Nice guys aren't nice because they are inherently good hearted and weak; they are nice because they get self-gratification from being the Nice Guy. On top of that they have the hopes of winning the heart a "wounded angel." What I have to say to those sorry fools is, "wake up"!! I like many others am a recovering nice guy. I learned from a lot of women, a lot of time, a lot of money, and a lot of pain that I can take all this time, money, etc. and turn it toward myself. Better myself. If a girl wants to come along for the ride she can. But I am number one. That is the same damn thing that all women think and want. They know that selfishness is the key to happiness better than men do apparently. Constantly abusing nice guys. Don’t be a nice guy, be selfish about everything. If you want to be a nice guy be a nice guy because you are doing it for you not someone else. If it ends up a win win situation Hooray!!!!
Hey whats up? I completely agree with your article. After recently changing my perspective on the entire female race I realize that I had it all wrong by being nice the whole time. I decided to start paying extra attention to myself (in terms of grooming and all other areas). I also stopped paying so much attention and "checking women out" all the time. Now, I hardly pay them any attention. They LOVE it. Lemme repeat, the LOVE it. Women love when a guy is content and into his own world. Also, women pay attention to what we (men) look at all the time. Since these recent changes I've been feeling like they're checking me out instead. So now I know the game of women and I am doing stuff to become a real player.
Ok here’s my take: I thought the article made some tremendous points and offers a harsh, but much needed wake up call to those guys that waste their time/lives on girls who really aren‘t worth it. Look if a girl wants to get her teeth kicked in, because she’s under the illusion that the jerk she’s dating will change or she likes the “excitement/drama” of dealing those morons, than let her...That’s her funeral, it’s not worth compromising your dignity over it.
Personally I wouldn’t consider myself a doormat or a jerk because, while the last thing I want to do is here girls bitch about their “bad luck” with men that THEY choose, I will still treat them with respect and maybe hear them out every once in a while if I‘m up for it. Ladies, It’s ok if the nice/good guy doesn’t “do it” for you, that’s fine, no hard feelings, no one said you were obligated to date them, just stop crying about your “tormented, tragic” relationships that YOU got yourselves into. What did someone hold a gun to your head? Luck also plays an important part as well...I mean give me a break there’s a fair share of jerks that don’t get girls either, and nice ones that do. For example my brother who by no means is outgoing/flirtatious with the ladies met his g/f of what has been now 3 years because she pretty much pursued him...Yeah that’s right gentlemen imagine that...It just sort of happened for him, like it does for most people...Which brings me to my next point, not everyone is meant to find that special someone to live happily ever after with. This isn’t a utopian society people, so let’s be realistic, if it happens great, if not well...tough luck, wasn’t meant to be, a lot of people get divorced anyways. Finally to the struggling nice guys out there, I can definitely relate, don’t let these girls get in your head, let them run themselves into the ground, just keep your head up, maintain your dignity, Stay strong and when the opportunity comes along take it, otherwise just deal with it, yeah you can vent every once in a while, just do it sparingly. Whatever you do Don’t sink to the level of the Jerk/Player who have to lie/manipulate/smack around, nieve, weak minded girls for their own self assurance and insecurities. Those people are the ones with the real issues and when everything is said in done it won’t take a rocket scientist to figure out who the joke’s really on, and it won’t be the good guys....Bring it on ladies.
Peace
I went out with a girl I felt attracted to, last night. In the dark realms of optimism, deep in some recess of my mind, I almost allowed myself to think that perhaps things could work in my favour and that I was terribly wrong of the platonic-like outcome of this situation.
In some medical fields, this is called a state of denial.
Let me tell you something: the moment you realize that the situation has you as the doormat, she as the nice girl and some third party as the guy she likes, do yourself a favour: drop it, pack up and leave.
As you increase how much emotional investment you put in, you'll be all tangled up in a situation from which you will have a hell of a hard time getting out from. And all of that effort for a zero Return of Investment.
Fortunately, my cynism and realism are always on stand-by. The moment she opened her mouth and I realized my status quo as the front porch shoe wiper, I wasn't even surprised.
What I find extremely amusing was hearing her say how well aware she was of her messed up state and how her friends called her crazy. This despite the obvious evidence that it would be everything but beneficial to her to pursue the third party.
I'd go as far as saying that the third party is doing to her, what she was doing to me. Except I had the insight to salute and bail out. Fast.
Since I have shown definite signs of weakness with my 'positive outlook' in this situation, once I got home, I sat down and read this article a few times for good measure.
I think I'll carry a printed copy with me at all times.
It's the equivalent of methadone for "nice guys."
well i have been a nice guy all my life and of course ive been walked all over. on those rare occasions when i did show that i liked a girl she sat me down and let me know that i was a friend and thats all i would ever be. but she knew she could count on me for anything if she ever needed it.... F%%%ing b$%$# and thats about when i decided to change i was tired of being treated like a dormate so now if i like a girl i get to know her let her know that im a nice guy then i make a move. if she gives me the "nice guy/friend" speech well end of that relationship. i dont have time for someone that isnt willing to recognize and appreciate something good.
Well, a girl that doesn't know how to appreciate a "nice guy" when she sees one or accepts the abuses from her "jerk boyfriend" submissively is not a "nice girl". She's a focking "stupid girl".
Real "nice girls" are everywhere. You haven't seen it because you haven't looked hard enough. So stop bitching and go out and meet someone--if you're the "nice guy" you claim yourself to be, then I have no doubt there will be someone that knows how to appreciate you.
Dude, Edit your work.
Stop being so redudant and quit your whining!
Well, a girl that doesn't know how to appreciate a "nice guy" when she sees one or accepts the abuses from her "jerk boyfriend" submissively is not a "nice girl". She's a focking "stupid girl".
I use "Nice Girl" as a term for an archetype. In another article, I refer to people who attempt to be humourous but succeed in being obnoxious instead as "FUNNY GUYS." We call this irony. Sorry if it's confusing for you.
Real "nice girls" are everywhere.
Sadly, you are correct.
You haven't seen it because you haven't looked hard enough. So stop bitching and go out and meet someone
You are one of the many people who have read this article about half way through and decided you now have enough information to comment. I have looked, and I have found people. The article states this. I am hardly whining.
--if you're the "nice guy" you claim yourself to be, then I have no doubt there will be someone that knows how to appreciate you.
Read. the. article. I said I am a former Nice Guy. I am not nice anymore.
Some rampant speculation on my part: you sound hauntingly like someone who is trying to justify a choice. Just saying.
Dude, Edit your work.
Stop being so redudant and quit your whining!
How about I edit your work instead?
***
Jason, edit your work.
Stop being so rendundant, and quit your whining!
Satire?
It was good!.. I read it all.. and I realized hwo much honesty you put in it. Congrats!
And.it was not whining at all it was just an opinion!
Girls don't want "Jerk Boyfriends" or "Nice Guys!" The kind, funny, intelligent girl looks for a true man. This should be obvious, because all women are attracted to extremely masculine guys, simply because they like guys. The best advice I can give to the "Nice Guys" is that women want men who are confident, funny, and intelligent. But, the woman you want also needs a man who is generous and will provide for them, because women enjoy feeling feminine and protected.
It's kind of unfortunate that you have to put a pricetag on anything really.
If you do something for a woman, buy her a gift, lend a shoulder, etc., you should be doing it out of the kindness of your heart and not because you want something in return.
All people, men and women alike prefer to be with people who can be themselves, be confident with who they are and not envy the haves of others.
Being a nice guy doesn't have to mean Saturday nights spent alone, not having sex, and being nothing more than a "good friend". That's just giving yourself an excuse for not achieving the goals you have in life.
Yiou say Nice Guy is a synonym for "doormat. and yet you also say being the Jerk Boyfriend isn't the answer either. All these labels and yet you don't have one for the solution you propose. The whole problem with it is that it acts like a stereotype, and people assume that being "nice" in general will lead to failure with women.
I guess there is no possible concept of a Nice Guy with the confidence and gonads to go after what he wants. What a shame that can't possibly exist.
You know those short, fat, bald guys with two-inch thick glasses on that walk around with a 5-10 blonde stunner on their arms? Yep, can't possibly be a Nice Guy.
AND of course the Nice Guy can't possibly love himself because all Nice Guys get walked over, obsess over Nice Girls who get smacked around by their Jerk Boyfriends.
And we shouldn't worry about whether "they'll die on the streets otherwise"??? Stop supporting them? Let the alcoholic live on the streets? Don't answer the phone when your friend calls saying she just got the shit beat out of her and has nowhere else to go?
I agree with the fact that it's important that people stand up for what they want in life, not to allow themselves to be treated other than the way in which they want but I do not believe that Nice Guy has to equate with doormat.
The whole problem with it is the tagline, Nice Guy. There's a hell of a lot of Nice Guys out there who don't fall into this category of being walked over by those they care the most about.
If I hear my 14-year-old son telling me that Nice Guys finish last I'll flat-out tell him that it's the biggest piece of bull I ever heard in my life.
Doormats finish last because they let people walk all over them to get ahead. Nice Guys don't have to be doormats.
I'd rather raise my son to try and save the person who's determined to drown than have him tell them to swim instead. If that's the kind of attitude it takes to get ahead I'd rather he be a Nice Guy.
It's kind of unfortunate that you have to put a pricetag on anything really.
And yet, I suspect you don't work for free. I'm guessing you have a job that pays you money, and if stopped doing that you would quit.
If you do something for a woman, buy her a gift, lend a shoulder, etc., you should be doing it out of the kindness of your heart and not because you want something in return.
Not even a thank you?
Here's the thing: I want nothing from Nice Girls. Spotted one just recently in fact, and I did a hard to starboard to avoid her, and I am glad for it. And Real Women understand the give and take of a relationship. No need to complain about them.
Being a nice guy doesn't have to mean Saturday nights spent alone, not having sex, and being nothing more than a "good friend". That's just giving yourself an excuse for not achieving the goals you have in life.
Yes, I agree. This was a critique of Nice Guys, not Nice Girls. There are too many idiot men in the world who are blaming their problems on the Nice Girl, as if she is the only one at fault. I want to shatter that myth.
Yiou say Nice Guy is a synonym for "doormat. and yet you also say being the Jerk Boyfriend isn't the answer either. All these labels and yet you don't have one for the solution you propose.
You're annoyed because I didn't label this archtype? Strange. Ok, fine. Let's call it "The Together Man." Knows what he wants, is generous with time and emotion, but he's not a pushover. And he can tell a Real Woman from a Nice Girl.
The whole problem with it is that it acts like a stereotype, and people assume that being "nice" in general will lead to failure with women.
Actually, the problem is that people don't recognize sarcasm and facetiousness. I also wrote an article protesting against "FUNNY GUYS." That doesn't mean I don't believe in humour.
I guess there is no possible concept of a Nice Guy with the confidence and gonads to go after what he wants. What a shame that can't possibly exist. You are correct. Under my definition, they are a logical impossibility. It's the Together Man is the one who can be kind and yet still not lose dignity. I like that phrase. Together Man. He's hip. He's together, man.
You know those short, fat, bald guys with two-inch thick glasses on that walk around with a 5-10 blonde stunner on their arms? Yep, can't possibly be a Nice Guy.
I never brought looks into this. How shallow of you.
AND of course the Nice Guy can't possibly love himself because all Nice Guys get walked over, obsess over Nice Girls who get smacked around by their Jerk Boyfriends.
Right again. In this article, this is my exact definition of a Nice Guy. They suffer from esteem problems, just like Nice Girls.
And we shouldn't worry about whether "they'll die on the streets otherwise"??? Stop supporting them? Let the alcoholic live on the streets? Don't answer the phone when your friend calls saying she just got the shit beat out of her and has nowhere else to go?
The first time, you should do something. The second time as well. The third time, you should be asking questions. The 34th time, you should be saying "free ride's over."
If you are not doing this, you are enabling. Doing nobody any favours. You are officially part of the problem.
I agree with the fact that it's important that people stand up for what they want in life, not to allow themselves to be treated other than the way in which they want but I do not believe that Nice Guy has to equate with doormat.
I have created a specific term called "Nice Guy." Under my definition, the Nice Guy is a doormat. Is this really your major argument with me? You don't like my terminology? This is a little like arguing whether the Titanic is a "catastrophe" or a "disaster" while it sinks. There's a much more serious problem going on here. Do you have anything to say about that?
If I hear my 14-year-old son telling me that Nice Guys finish last I'll flat-out tell him that it's the biggest piece of bull I ever heard in my life.
Okay, you win. They don't finish last, they finish somewhere at the bottom of the top 40. Meanwhile, burning up the charts at #1 is the Together Man, with his hit single "(Got Me A) Real Woman," knocking Jerk Boyfriend's "I'll Never Do That Again Baby, I Swear" out of the top ten.
Doormats finish last because they let people walk all over them to get ahead. Nice Guys don't have to be doormats.
Under my definition, etc., etc., etc...
Did you know that the word "nice" used to mean "foolish" in the 13th Century? As late as the 18th Century it was used to describe a person who was pleasant enough, if a little simple. So I think my definition of "Nice Guy" grows ever-more justified.
I'd rather raise my son to try and save the person who's determined to drown than have him tell them to swim instead.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish... I'm no parent, but I believe you would be better served to teach your son triage. He could well end up focusing on the impossible case and miss someone he really could save.
If that's the kind of attitude it takes to get ahead I'd rather he be a Nice Guy.
No! Together Men are where it's at!
And yet, I suspect you don't work for free. I'm guessing you have a job that pays you money, and if stopped doing that you would quit.
I don't quite see the correlation between a job and a relationship. Had I known this article was all encompassing, including such things as employment I likely would not have thrown an a term like anything around that statement.
Silly me. Most people, I would assume, if they could have a roof over their head and food in their fridge and the means to do what they want, would do their ideal job for free. But then maybe that's not a job.
I'm hoping you spent more than two minutes writing this article, maybe edited it a little, got someone to proofread, editted again. Probably took some time. Ditto for the rest of your articles on here. If time and labour are that valuable to you what have you received in return for sharing your vast amounts of wisdom with us?
I have created a specific term called "Nice Guy." Under my definition, the Nice Guy is a doormat. Is this really your major argument with me? You don't like my terminology? This is a little like arguing whether the Titanic is a "catastrophe" or a "disaster" while it sinks. There's a much more serious problem going on here. Do you have anything to say about that?
Oh, you created the Nice Guy term that everyone is familiar with, that pages upon pages have been devoted to on the Web. Hope you trademarked it.
What do I have to say about the disaster (or catastrophe) you claim is happening here?
If I go by your suggestion of saving the world through apathy, I'd only concern myself with the people in this world who have something to offer me in return for my good deeds. I wouldn't do a single thing for anyone unless I got something in return. Quid pro quo, right?
I'm guessing you haven't really given a gift since you stopped being nice.
Nice mens being a doormat. Nice is foolish. It must be a great experience going through life with such a cynical view that you have to put a price on everything or you're letting yourself be abused.
I don't quite see the correlation between a job and a relationship. Had I known this article was all encompassing, including such things as employment I likely would not have thrown an a term like anythingaround that statement.
Then you should have used different terminology. Because you chose that one particular word, I assumed it meant far more than you intended, and I rejected everything else you had to say, regardless of merit. I suppose I shouldn't have done that, should I?
I'm hoping you spent more than two minutes writing this article, maybe edited it a little, got someone to proofread, editted again. Probably took some time. Ditto for the rest of your articles on here. If time and labour are that valuable to you what have you received in return for sharing your vast amounts of wisdom with us?
For one thing, all this great fan mail. That's better than any paycheque.
Oh, you created the Nice Guy term that everyone is familiar with, that pages upon pages have been devoted to on the Web. Hope you trademarked it.
Not yet, but that's a good idea, thanks. And I see you are even capitalizing the phrase, as I did. Good work. This helps distinguish the difference between nice guy, and Nice Guy.
The Nice Guy Syndrome is not yet widely recognized. As I said, people are still blaming the Nice Girl. I am working to correct this. The more people who read and comment on this article, the more it spreads.
If I go by your suggestion of saving the world through apathy, I'd only concern myself with the people in this world who have something to offer me in return for my good deeds. I wouldn't do a single thing for anyone unless I got something in return. Quid pro quo, right?
You miss the point again, my friend. I don't expect anything for me, I expect something for them. After pulling the drowning person out of the water, you don't stick your hand out and ask to be compensated. You would however, believe that person has learned something for their own sake.
But if that person jumps back into the water and immediately starts drowning again, well, is it really so much to hope that they don't keep repeating the same mistakes?
I'm guessing you haven't really given a gift since you stopped being nice.
You're guessing incorrectly. And I didn't stop being nice, I stopped being Nice.
Nice mens being a doormat. Nice is foolish. It must be a great experience going through life with such a cynical view that you have to put a price on everything or you're letting yourself be abused.
And you know what's even worse? I'm a teacher. Bwuhhahahahah! My evil worldview is being pumped into a new generation of students every day! Soon I will have an army of people who think as I do.
Then no-one will laugh.
No-one.
The Nice Guy Syndrome is not yet widely recognized. As I said, people are still blaming the Nice Girl. I am working to correct this. The more people who read and comment on this article, the more it spreads.
Well fortunately differences of opinion are allowed. I may be one of the lone people here who thinks you've decided with your Public Service Announcement that you've got it all figured out yet I can't help thinking that this article would work really well on the AskMen Web site right up beside How to Maximize your Wing Man's Effectiveness.
In fact, AskMen, similar to a male version of Cosmopolitan, seems to be looking for a few writers these days and you might want to look in to it. I can see your byline below the headline now, How to get that Great Corner Window Desk and Bang the Hot Secretary in 10 Easy Steps.
And once again you contradict yourself by saying the Nice Guy Syndrome is not widely recognized yet in your article you state that it's become a phenomenon in pop culture. Pop culture by most people's definitions includes, film, television, publishing, and news. It's not an underground form of communication that only makes its way to a select few individuals.
Oh right, Nice Guys don't understand that it's their own fault and they shouldn't let people walk all over them. Such a long article for such an obvious statement. But of course there must be a lot of people in the same circumstance of your former self who need to hear your lesson, because it's a pop culture phenomenon, but not widely recognized because people are blaming Nice Girl instead of Nice Guy and we must love ourselves and not put up with any crap.
Bravo. Insightful. Seriously, AskMen needs your help with new columns. Go now. Along with fan letters you may get paid for it.
Most people are aware of the Nice guys finish last proverb. I'd be surprised if you could find a person who hadn't heard of it.
And you know what's even worse? I'm a teacher. Bwuhhahahahah! My evil worldview is being pumped into a new generation of students every day! Soon I will have an army of people who think as I do.
Then no-one will laugh. No-one.
I'm laughing right now thinking about it. I do hope however that you're teaching something like how to properly use quotations or how to throw a football rather than having a position in the social sciences that would teach students how to interact with others.
I will finish by saying that your article is entertaining if nothing else and at this point I'm at a loss as to what else could be. I doubt the humour was intended but I'll take a laugh in any form I can get it. Looking forward to any further unique insights that you may have to share.
Your friendly neighbourhood Nice Guy,
LIVEandLEARN.
I apologize for the inadvertant bolding of my words. I'll refrain in the future from trying to italicize, bold, link, etc., as it just results in a mess like the above.
Well fortunately differences of opinion are allowed.
And you accuse me of stating the obvious.
I may be one of the lone people here who thinks you've decided with your Public Service Announcement that you've got it all figured out yet I can't help thinking that this article would work really well on the AskMen Web site right up beside How to Maximize your Wing Man's Effectiveness.
Too bad for them it's a Capital of Nasty exclusive.
I can see your byline below the headline now, How to get that Great Corner Window Desk and Bang the Hot Secretary in 10 Easy Steps.
My record is 7, actually. I am trying to get Banging the CEO Down to under 15 steps, but it's tricky. See, normally CEOs are the ones that screw people BADOOM CHING!
And once again you contradict yourself by saying the Nice Guy Syndrome is not widely recognized yet in your article you state that it's become a phenomenon in pop culture.
Where did contradict myself the first time, pray tell?
And allow me to clarify. The concept of what I call "Nice Guys" is not a new one. This is what I state in my article. This is the term I've applied to whiny males whining on about how badly women exploit them while they hang out with men who are the scum of the earth. There are websites dedicated to this theme, such as Care and Feeding of Your Platonic Friend. Pop culture can also come from the people themselves ya know. You've never heard of the "Let's Just Be Friends" speech?
What I am adding to the mix, which I have not seen elsewhere, is the concept that the Nice Guy is to blame for this set of circumstances, NOT the Jerk Boyfriend, NOT the Nice Girl. Nice Guys are looked upon as sadsack heroes. This is wrong and must change.
Oh right, Nice Guys don't understand that it's their own fault and they shouldn't let people walk all over them. Such a long article for such an obvious statement.
Yes, it a long, long article. Which you read through. So it must have done something right.
But of course there must be a lot of people in the same circumstance of your former self who need to hear your lesson, because it's a pop culture phenomenon, but not widely recognized because people are blaming Nice Girl instead of Nice Guy and we must love ourselves and not put up with any crap.
So, you don't think this phenomenon exists? There are quite a lot of messages in this forum that would disagree with you.
Bravo. Insightful. Seriously, AskMen needs your help with new columns. Go now. Along with fan letters you may get paid for it.
What are you, the editor of AskMen.com? Make me an offer and I'll consider it.
Most people are aware of the Nice guys finish last proverb. I'd be surprised if you could find a person who hadn't heard of it.
If you understand pop culture, you might understand allusions too. That what I was making. Feel free to congratulate me for knowing such a big word fancy word.
I'm laughing right now thinking about it. I do hope however that you're teaching something like how to properly use quotations or how to throw a football rather than having a position in the social sciences that would teach students how to interact with others.
I wrote a great article on quotation marks, did you read it? Are you a fan of my work? Send me a self-addressed stamped envelope and I'll sign an 8x10 glossy for you.
I will finish by saying that your article is entertaining if nothing else and at this point I'm at a loss as to what else could be.
Do you mean 'what else it could be'? It could be educational, if you'd just open your mind.
I doubt the humour was intended but I'll take a laugh in any form I can get it. Looking forward to any further unique insights that you may have to share.
So you believe my insights are unique afterall? I would have thought that since this horrible, evil, anti-social, Weapons-of-Mass-Destruction-hording article is so "obvious" as you say, it couldn't possibly be unique. I hope you didn't contradict yourself there. That would just break my heart.
Your friendly neighbourhood Nice Guy, LIVEandLEARN.
You know Nice Guy, I'm sure if you keep this up, you can change me.
I am what you'd and most people define as a 'nice guy'. Just because you're nice, doesn't make it impossible to get a nice girl. Sure the odds may be pitted against you in some cases. I've seen plenty of girls going out with dirtbags, and it made me think, why? They're rude, hit them, yell at them, and do other mean things I shouldn't mention. Most girls usually can tell the difference between a good person who really cares for them and a jerk as they get older and more mature. Some never grow up and continue to be restless and shallow, looking for that so-called "Bad-boy charm".
You said that being a 'nice guy' wasn't working and you couldn't land a girl. My guess is that you weren't trying nearly hard enough. Or you're not using the right lure, and by that I mean charm. Good charm, not that lously bad-boy charm. It's those stupid freakin' jerks that try to shadow us nice guys out. They even try to give us a bad rep, maybe that's why so many good and nice people complain about not being able to get a girl. If it was my decision on the fate of these jerks, I would say total eradication with no hesitation. There are very few girls that actually deserve to be stuck with a jerk. I can think of few right now, total idiots, going for those dirtbags like they were worth their weight in gold, more like coal.
I've never met a "nice guy" who wasn't gay or too fukin feminine (implying he's somewhat gay). I believe being nice means fidplsying weakness because people abuse you when you're nice, they don't believe that if they abuse you then you'll kick the crap out of them. TRUST ME THIS IS SOME FUKING LAW OF NATURE!!!
Nature has a certain order for the animal kingdom, however humans are civilized (or should be). Niceness is NOT weakness. A rude personality could easily mean weakness. What do shallow girls have against nice guys anyway?! We treat them nicely and truly care, yet they perfer abusive dirtbags.
I am what you'd and most people define as a 'nice guy'.
My condolences.
You said that being a 'nice guy' wasn't working and you couldn't land a girl.
Go back and read the article all the way through. Notice the part where I wrote "my current girlfriend..."
My guess is that you weren't trying nearly hard enough.
The harder you try for a Nice Girl, the less likely you'll ever get one. Their low self-esteem says to them "Anybody who wants someone like me obviously can't be worth having."
A friend of my recent tried the following tactic: treating the Nice Girls in his life with utter indifference. Now they follow him everywhere. Seriously, they are practically throwing themselves at him while he is curt with them, and ignores their phone calls and emails. The big joke of course is that the minute he starts acting considerate, they won't want him anymore. Thankfully, he has not bothered with any of them and is dating a Real Woman instead.
What do shallow girls have against nice guys anyway?! We treat them nicely and truly care, yet they perfer abusive dirtbags.
Are you listening to yourself? Why would you want a shallow girl to begin with? Nice Girls are not worth having. Get a Real Woman or forget it.
And by the way, you're right, you are a Nice Guy. You're putting all the blame on the Nice Girl and the Jerk Boyfriend. The real problem is you. You. Not someone else. Take responsibility.
I only take responsibility for what's my fault. You can't change the nature of shallow girls. It's a genetic default. I'm looking into genetic engineering, maybe some day I can cure this all too common problem. I only had to read the first few paragraphs of your article before I was too sickened to go on. I think that the only way you got your girlfriend was by being jerk for a while. I'm not into shallow girls. I just don't understand why they like abusive dirtbags. Nice girls are well worth it. I'm gonna keep trying no matter what. I refuse to be jerk. I will not stoop to such low levels. Sure being nice and honest is harder, but the reward is far more worthwhile. I don't blame nice girls, since most them aren't that shallow. It's the truly shallow girls with their genetic default that are to blame. I would never be a jerk to my girlfriend. I'd go to the ends of the world for her, not that I'm a doormat. I don't let people step all me, but there are some people that are worth bending over backwards for. I refuse to lose her to a jerk. If I do, I will obliterate that dirtbag. Velociraptors are very protective and have vicious attacks. My favorites are: Slash, bite, and tear. Warning: Look out for a 6'4" guy named Kevin. He might just steal your girl. I have my eye on him. If you steps out of line, he will get a taste of my claws.
*************************In Reply To************************
I am what you'd and most people define as a 'nice guy'.
My condolences.
You said that being a 'nice guy' wasn't working and you couldn't land a girl.
Go back and read the article all the way through. Notice the part where I wrote "my current girlfriend..."
My guess is that you weren't trying nearly hard enough.
The harder you try for a Nice Girl, the less likely you'll ever get one. Their low self-esteem says to them "Anybody who wants someone like me obviously can't be worth having."
A friend of my recent tried the following tactic: treating the Nice Girls in his life with utter indifference. Now they follow him everywhere. Seriously, they are practically throwing themselves at him while he is curt with them, and ignores their phone calls and emails. The big joke of course is that the minute he starts acting considerate, they won't want him anymore. Thankfully, he has not bothered with any of them and is dating a Real Woman instead.
What do shallow girls have against nice guys anyway?! We treat them nicely and truly care, yet they perfer abusive dirtbags.
Are you listening to yourself? Why would you want a shallow girl to begin with? Nice Girls are not worth having. Get a Real Woman or forget it.
And by the way, you're right, you are a Nice Guy. You're putting all the blame on the Nice Girl and the Jerk Boyfriend. The real problem is you. You. Not someone else. Take responsibility.
If you steps out of line, he will get a taste of my claws.
*****Sorry, typo*****
I meant:
If HE steps out of line, he will get a taste of my claws.....
That's a guarantee
I only had to read the first few paragraphs of your article before I was too sickened to go on. I think that the only way you got your girlfriend was by being jerk for a while. I'm not into shallow girls. I just don't understand why they like abusive dirtbags. Nice girls are well worth it. I'm gonna keep trying no matter what. I refuse to be jerk. I will not stoop to such low levels
If you had read on, you would have noticed this passage:
"Now, Nice Guys reading this, because they really aren’t too bright, are probably assuming that I’m advocating being the Jerk Boyfriend instead. Not at all. Jerk Boyfriends are indeed scum."
Your claws are no match for my powers of sarcasm.
Just so you know, Velociraptors may have only been 3 feet tall, but were also very dangerous. Believe me, you don't want to pick a fight with one of these things. 3 inch curved, sickle-like claws. Velociraptor could also run up to 40 MPH. Well anyways, I'm still a bit offended by the article, but will finish reading it at some point. Glad you agree that jerks are scum. Or were you being sarcastic? Your sarcasm is no match for my claws and teeth. Forget it, words don't hurt me.
Your sarcasm is no match for my claws and teeth
Perhaps girls ignore you not because you're a "nice guy," but because you rave like an idiot about some big lizard. Have you considered counselling?
Just for your information, I don't go around blabbing about lizards to girls. I do not need counselling, I just need time and patience. It's definitely better to be a nice guy. You can get a much higher quality girlfriend unlike those jerks who go for quantity.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go beat Emerald WEAPON. I hate that creature because it cheats. Good thing I can use Bahamut ZERO 8 times in a row! Limit breaks are essential. Elixirs and Megaexlirs are a must. Emerald WEAPON quickly knocks out Vincent. So I have to rely on Nanaki and Cloud. Nanaki's Limit: Stardust Ray is far more effective than Earth Rave. Cloud has the Level 3 Limit Break: Meteorain. I was so close the last time. I took out Emerald's 4 small lasers. Then it had to be a bad sport and cheated by using Emerald Beam and Revenge Stomp before I have chance to defend. I still feel lucky! Wish me luck!
************************In Reply To************************
Your sarcasm is no match for my claws and teeth
Perhaps girls ignore you not because you're a "nice guy," but because you rave like an idiot about some big lizard. Have you considered counselling?
velcorapter d00d
you leik fianl fanttasy! final fantasy RuLeZ AlL. teh japanesese who also maek annie may andmango bettar then anybofy elkse, also maek bettar gaemes. amarican rpogs sux, nad anybody who deosnt;' like fimal fantasy is a looser who obviousy has no leif.
FINAL FANTASTY ROCXXX!!!!
A*S*S*
annie may siper tsar
teh ultamate connoser of japenese cultare
That freaking WEAPON cheated again by using it's super weapon that did 9999 points of damage to each character even though I had Wall. I don't know how to get Final Attack, so winning is near impossible. I also hate that Revenge Stomp attack. Not only does it do damage, but it also serves a DeBarrier, so the affected characted in vulnerable. Also that Emerald Beam really gets on my nerves. At least it's better than that super-weapon attack. I found out that I can survive a lot longer against Emerald that Ruby. Ruby is even more of a cheater. It quickly kills/whirls away 2 of characters before I can defend. Then by the time it buries its claws (the only time you can attack) my remaining character is too weak and doesn't stand a chance against the Ruby Ray and claws that cause status ailments. Where can I find 2 more ribbons? I really need Final Attack.
If you want to know these things do what every other person does and buy the strategy guide and for God's sake quit talking about FF7!
-Smitty-boy
P.S. I AM ashamed to know this but there's a hidden cave in the ice mountain place (I forget the name). Go across a bridge and keep going straight into a hidden room. It's the first time you go there on the first disc. I think. Sorry I can't be more specific but it has been 5 years since I played the game and beat it (and the weapons but I'm not teling you how because I figured it out on my own).
For your information, I do have the FF7 Strategy guide. It doesn't help much on the really hard stuff. If I can get Final Attack and Knights Of The Round I know I can beat Emerald. I almost beat it last night, except the freaking creature cheated with Emerald Beam, Revenge Stomp, and it's ultimate attack that did 9,999 points of damage to each character. This was on 2 attempts. You don't have to tell me how to beat the WEAPONS. I just want to know how to get Final Attack. The book says it's a Chocobo Racing gift, but I don't trust it because it's full of typos. I made it all the way up to S Class and haven't seen Final Attack offered as a prize. Also, someone said you can get it at the Battle Arena by getting Omnislash and W-Summon. I hate the Battle Arena because I frequently get cheated when my acessory, Ribbon, get broken and and get the Beserk Status or if my Item Command gets sealed and Ribbon is broken and Mini is used, I can't cure it! I just want to know how to get Final Attack!
To beat Emerald Weapon, you gotta max out Barret's level and stats and weapons. Once that's done, have him to that chaingun-looking attack on him. Each bullet can do 9k damage. Also, there's some item or materia in the game that makes him repeat his limit break move. I forget what it is, but if you give it to him, he'll do lots of limit breaks, more than enough needed to kill him.
I can almost beat Ruby. I just need Knights of the Round. Try this: Enter a battle, have Cloud kill his allies. Finish the battle and heal Cloud completely. Make sure his HP is 9,999 and MP is 999 and has the Revive-All Combo (Life2) Now go fight Ruby. Ruby will immediately bury its claws. Quickly bring you allies back to life, put up your defenses. Attack with Knights of the Round-Quadra Magic Combo and Mime it. This should make quick work of Ruby. Be sure to bring lots of Elixirs, Megaexlirs, and X-potions. Also take a few Softs because Ruby can use Petrify. I just need to breed a Gold Chocobo and I know I can beat Ruby. I should be able to defeat Emerald as well. I'm having trouble breeding the right Chocobos. It's just luck of the draw. I would appreciate any hints and strategies.
Having dated a lot of jerks and asses in the past, i made a promise to myself about a year and half ago that i would only date nice guys who treat me with respect. I never really wanted a doormat, because really anyone who thinks i'm always right is too stupid to know that NO ONE (unfortunately, this includes myself) is perfect. But granted, i don't think "nice guy" = "doormat".
the problem i've noticed in dating nice guys is that they're all so damaged and hurt from other girls/women that they run away from the nice girl b/c they can't believe i'm not out to hurt them. the second they realize that they are actually starting to fall for you, they close up, panic, and can't continue dating you. oh yeah, they also seem to think really far in advance in the relationship and analyse everything and freak themselves out leaving me thinking "wtf? i just wanted to know if we were going out this friday!".
oh well,just my luck. in any case...i still like nice guys. it's a wonderful experience to date a nice guy, even if it does end up being short-lived. you always remember them fondly.
I don't know what you fucking bitches want.
You say I'm sweet but that just means unfuckable and unlovable. I have the car, the house, the artistic talent and the good job but hasn't seemed to be good enough. I have so many girl friends but no lovers.
I don't know how to be anything nice to people.
Why do I have to take the chance all the time? Why do I have to have the heart on the line?
Women say men want this and men want that.
Bullshit... men want women.
Also the reason we try to fuck you on the first date is because we know if have done it on the 2nd or 3rd date it's not going to happen at all.
Women seem to have their head in the clouds and thinking that have to feel some overwelling love in three dates or less. It seems some times the only way for men to get you in your love mode is to lie our asses off so we can make you think your in Love. Bullshit!
First off, I submit that the article is great, much more so than the comments it preceded. I was more enthusiastic about it before reading the comments in order to get some opinions, not only because of the abundant illiteracy found in people who like to write anonymous comments to random articles on the web, but also because in spite of its finesse, the article suffers from the same limitations most articles about relationship stuff suffer from. It's still stereotypical, generalized rambling, albeit funny.
[i]"The nice girl does see how great you are, but does not realize until later in her life what is best for her. And if any guy tries to pass as the nice guy, but really just wants to get a piece of ass, the girl sees that and will never go for you. I am sorry that none of these people have learned any lessons in life and will never realize how to be selfless. Hopefully every one will find the right person some day and when they do, dont expect a big old pat on the back for being nice."[/i]
You know, in my book the desire to be recognized and loved is different from wanting a piece of ass. I fail to see your argument. The girl literally thinks "Well those guys look like one rebellious pile of shit, time to get my brains screwed out until I'm 30 and then try to find a decent guy to settle down with" and on the way will discard you if you are not the "real thing" among the Nice Guys? You lose your eligibility if you don't sacrifice yourself for nothing? That's the myth the article's tackling, yes. Quite successfully too.
[i]"the problem i've noticed in dating nice guys is that they're all so damaged and hurt from other girls/women that they run away from the nice girl b/c they can't believe i'm not out to hurt them. the second they realize that they are actually starting to fall for you, they close up, panic, and can't continue dating you. oh yeah, they also seem to think really far in advance in the relationship and analyse everything and freak themselves out leaving me thinking "wtf? i just wanted to know if we were going out this friday!"."[/i]
Imagine you getting along with some funny guy that listens carefully to you rambling multiple times about the problems in your relationship with some abusive dolt, who you agree to be an abusive dolt who you don't want a relationship with. When contact peaks, you deliberately lie in order to avoid a guild trip and conversation and run back to your jerk, come back happy, then notice that he ignores you and you go off crying, breaking off contact with the funny guy for half a year. When you got over your idiocy, you decide to talk again to the funny guy so obviously in love with you and miraculously get together.
Would you still wonder about shyness in such a scenario? I'd wonder how you would categorize here. Such a shade of grey already escapes the extreme definition of the Nice Guy giving and *never* receiving.
great article jason..... last year i was the nicest guy... a little TOO nice.... now i am still that nice guy, but i also have a rough, naughty, exciting side, which is why i think i finally found that girl... and we're very happy. don't give up nice guys... just make things fun and still be nice
-Chad
I recently realized that I am a nice guy... Despite every attempt to be caustic, brash, and outright pissy I still end up being a nice guy. I think it might be genetic. See, even in confessing this I use words like 'pissy'. Its only a freaking 1/2 step away from saying "premenstrual" GAHH! What led me to this discovery? I recently started a blog and really beautiful women started subscribing to it- seems okay, right? What kind of mail do I get from them? THEY WANT ADVICE ON THEIR RELATIONSHIPS! THEY WANT TO COMPLAIN ABOUT THEIR BOYFRIENDS!
Its a goddamn curse, I swear. Either underage girls hitting on me or of age girls seeing be as a buddy it a bloody miracle I ever get laid...
<3
REVSCRJ
This Velociraptor dude has gone totally psycho!
For months he's been blabbing away like a lunatic about 'Girls Are Shallow' on a poll by that very name. He calls himself Spinosaurus over there. Make no mistake, it's the same moron. He's whining about tall guys named Kevin, talking about some game Final Fantasy and other similar crap.
http://www.misterpoll.com/1788466572.html
and messages at
http://www.misterpoll.com/threads.m?poll_id=1788466572
Some cool chicks over there tried to counsel him for weeks, but he then starting attacking them, calling them names and wishing bad things on them. Some dudes tried, too, to no avail to talk sense into him. He started attacking them, too.
Then one chick said something like he must have a small penis to go with his small brains. That really set him off on a tirade.
Then he started deleting posts of anyone who disagreed with him until a few dudes starting posting stuff about him elsewhere on the site, to basically tell him, no way, dude, you ain't getting away with it any longer.
The dude is totally nuts!
One post, since deleted, outed him even more, that he posted stuff on:
Santa Cruz Sentinel
Gov Teen Forum
He keeps whining about a girl named Sheena, who from her posts if it's her and not really him, is really pissed off at him now because he posted her name, email address and pic. She's threatening to call the police, according to one message.
This dude needs to be put in a straight jacket!
as a former "nice girl" to a former "nice guy" i can completely support everything you just said.
for almost a year i was the "nice girl" to the most amazing man i have ever known. and he was my "nice guy," my best friend.
it took him finally distancing himself from me for me to finally realize how much he did mean to me.
we've been in a wonderfully serious relationship for almost two years now. and i fully believe he is my soul-mate.
everything in your article was completely true. and you deserve a medal for seeing through the bullshit of life.
-lexi-
See, u nice guyz out there. it can work for you.
it's worked for me for i don't kno how many years.You just gotta kno how to play it. the way i do it is I pretend to be the nice guy for awhile and after a bit i jus don't care. the game for me is to chase, den when they come cryin on my shoulder i ignore and act like i don't care. basicly u gotta be both i nice guy, and an asshole at the same time.
If a girl won't date you after months or years of being the nice guy, there may be another reason for it. I have a friend who fits into that category perfectly. He's the guy that all the females run to when their boyfriends are being jerks. They cry on his shoulder, he makes them laugh and they always say "you're such a great friend."
He's frustrated because none of these girls want to date him. From the sound of this, you might be thinking that the article above explains this. Then you spot this particular "nice guy". He's 300 pounds, hairy and lives with his parents still.
I've known lots of nice guys over the years and there's a running theme with all of them. They're usually ugly and if they're not ugly they have obsession problems which freak girls out, talking about marriage as soon as they get to know you, say "I love you" at the end of the first date or have some strange porn fetish that everyone knows about.
Nice Guy usually equals undateable loser...
I agree on the doormat view but "reforming" myself to get a gal isn't my idea.
There's no getting around it. Girls are nothing but ungrateful, filthy, shallow wastrels. Sheena's gone. She wanted some stinkin' tall guy. That damn T-rex. Just wait until my pack and I take him down!
Ok, I used to be a "nice guy". Then, about eighteen to twenty-four months ago I made the transition to "good guy"...no change...I still get told "We're better just friends" by everyone (that's 8 different people in the past year).
I've can make girls laugh, smile, suprise them. I've spent hours at a time talking dirty with them. Everything that I've ever read "You should do...", "You should make them..." everywhere. And still I'm just a friend to them. One person was even said "Aren't you going to ask me out then?" when the flirtation took me there...a few minutes later she turned me down. Amazingly this wasn't done out of bitchyness.
The only good thing about the change is that I can now pull at rock concerts. Unfortunately most happen two or three hours away from where I live and most of the people I meet have travelled for similar amounts of time and I'm not up for long distance relatonships.
They never work.
Why does none of this work for me?
I am a nice girl... or so every guy I like has told me... in fact I'm too nice well to date anyway, great as freind not as a girlfreind... (this comes from nice guys by the way) So basically it doesnt just happen to guys, apparently too nice is an affliction both sexes suffer from
dont know why I'm writing this... probably sheer frustration lol
probably the best article I have read on the nice guy problem.
It can be difficult knowing where to draw the line, if you have been a nice guy. So I recommend erring on the side of cruelty, severity and capriciousness. For example, practice standing others up. Do this a few times. Throw out the phone number of a beautiful woman for no reason. Leave abruptly without saying goodbye. If your femme fatale of a friend calls you up Friday at 7AM to ask you to help her move that Sunday out of the apartment she was sharing with the abuser of an "ex" husband about whom she wasn't entirely open with you, then you can tell her no, off the bat, or, you can tell her yes, and then later tell her no, you changed your mind; moreover ther will be no further communication from you. This is good practice. It's good practice also, whenever your friends complain about their boyfriends, to say, "whatever," and change the subject. Better is to cut them loose. Nice guys should reflect on the example of the lion, who having taken over the pride of a vanquished lion, proceeds to kill his rival's cubs. Think about this before you wimp out.
undefinedundefinedJason,
You wrote a funny, but excellent piece about why nice guys finish last. I had been there, so I know how you felt getting dumped by the psycho woman. I felt that after reading your article, however, it sounded almost like a victim statement coming from yourself instead of the general problem about nice guys. There were several obvious things you said in the article and the subsequent replies you made that led me to believe that you were still a nice guy.
The typical nice guy is a person who likes to make a lot of assumptions based on other people's thoughts and not really his or her own. The reason is simple. Nice guys don't have an interesting life to form his own thoughts. And when challenged and rejected, he or she writes a victim impact statement like this own and many others I read on the web to garner sympathy among other nice guys or gals.
Well let me know tell you this and coming from an ex- Nice Guy. Being sorry for yourself isn't going to get women and women don't like sorry men and they don't like jerks either. Women want a strong, independently minded and a man willing to adapt to change and move on. That's why, a lot of articles of self improving yourself and getting out of the mold of being a nice guy requires that you have to be yourself, though it's easier said than done. You need to develop and foster your interests -- that's your life and that's your spine! There's no need to be a bad boy to impress a woman. A woman will see you as a whole package, a man she will want to be with for a very long time. She'll only see that in you when you least expect it. That's how you'll attract women. Chasing women will work sometimes, but I never had a good experience keeping them for long. If they had to put your through the interrogation session like you had with the blond girl, you can pretty much kiss the relationship goodbye -- it'll always be a no win situation.
You need to also realize that there are people out there who thrive in destroying others to build themselves up. Usually, they have very low self-esteem issues, but sometimes some other. Do you want to date a negative person, when you yourself is a positively charged nice guy?
Nice guys will only finish first if he can move on to greener pastures. If he lingers on, trying to hold on to what he's got, he'll finish last and get nothing. And that's the truth.
Mr Nice Guy (ex)
If you came away with that idea, then I don't think you read my article very closely. This impression is re-enforced when you give me advice that I have already put in the article:
"There's no need to be a bad boy to impress a woman."
"Now, Nice Guys reading this, because they really aren't too bright, are probably assuming that I'm advocating being the Jerk Boyfriend instead. Not at all."
"Women want a strong, independently minded and a man willing to adapt to change and move on."
"If you want to break the Nice Guy/Nice Girl cycle, you can't be a pushover. Nobody, man or woman respects a doormat."
"But if that help is not accepted after 10 tries, as far I'm concerned the Helper has done plenty and now it's up to the Recipient to get off their ass while the Helper moves on to someone smart enough to listen."
Any of that sound familiar? It should if you read the article through. And what's this about a "blond girl [sic]"? I never mentioned any blonde girl. The woman you seem to be referring to wasn't blonde.
I do not want to be seen as a victim. This is all about the Nice Guy syndrome, "the why me?" bullshit. What I want is all Nice Guys to stop seing themselves as victims and recognize themselves for what they truly are: whiners and idiots. I certainly do not want sympathy from them or Nice Girls. In fact, I find the very idea insulting. So I warn you: I am about to bite back, because I ain't no victim.
I am well aware that there are people who like to tear down others in order to build themselves up. They're called "Jerk Boyfriends." Or "People Who Half-read Articles on CoN and Then Write Patronizing and Ill-Thought Out Responses in the Comment Field."
Please do not worry about my life being interesting. I am enjoying it very much, along with the people who share it with me.
Jason
Jason,
I thought you were a reformed nice guy, until you replied to my teaser message exactly what I had expected. You replied "exactly" like a nice guy would -- very serious and quite defensive. A major women turn off.
If you're too serious, too defensive and too confrontational in life, do you think you will be interesting to people?
Interesting...
I thought you were a reformed nice guy, until you replied to my teaser message exactly what I had expected.
We're very honoured to have such a cognitive genius among us who can predict the responses of people. Out of curiosity, did you actually read his response, or did you skim through it much like the article?
You replied "exactly" like a nice guy would -- very serious and quite defensive. A major women turn off.
If you're too serious, too defensive and too confrontational in life, do you think you will be interesting to people?
-as I am actually more honestly curious what, given the situations were reversed, the 'appropriate' non-niceguy (therefore, we are led to believe, the more effective one on the psychological 'plumage flashing' mating ritual scale) would respond to that.
Personally: I have female 'just-friends', help both male and females w/ problems when they are presented, and I even had an ex say to me (I kid you not on this), regarding her current bf who'd got her regular on speed smoking: "Why is it that I fall for such losers and turn away from the good ones like you..."... so it's a pretty safe call for me to say I'm a reformed nice guy. 'Reformed' because I lack that love-of-the-nice-girl thing. I have reached a state of bitter zen in regard to relationships. Sex is easy enough to get when its wanted, mutualy healthy relationships are the absolute polar opposite. As a reformed nice guy when I see some pair of friends hook up into a couple I think "Good luck- Better you than me" As I have honestly had my fill of the psychos, the desperately needy, the selfagrandizing, the "twisted by their beauty" twitchy backstabbers, the high maintenence, the low self esteemed, et al. Not to defame them, as I am sure I am on their list catagorized by something equally as much a cartoon- its just that I have no desire to roll the dice considering the odds of crapps in the love game... the human being is just a bad bet, statisticly speaking.
So that said, I wouldve reacted pretty similar to Jason, what is your version??
('retort sans abortion' wouldve been huge)
<3__ REVSCRJ
How utterly fascinating.
Would you like a Coke?
Jason
PS: The only winning move is not to play.
Jason,
I thought you were a reformed nice guy, until you replied to my teaser message exactly what I had expected. You replied "exactly" like a nice guy would -- very serious and quite defensive. A major women turn off.
If you're too serious, too defensive and too confrontational in life, do you think you will be interesting to people?
>How utterly fascinating.
-I tend to ramble :)
>Would you like a Coke?
Only to clean metal with.
<3
REVSCRJ
Lets face it nice guys are pussy's. I admit it I am a pussy, I was consistently a nice guy with my friend but she actually ended up turing into my girlfriend. How sweet was that? I was there for her and she knew it and she accepted it. Im glad things worked out and she did date so many asshole before. Well I outsmarted the asshols. Those dumbfucks..
anyways comment back if u have an opinion like mine totaltrespasser@yahoo.com
Hey man that was a great read and it seems you've figured a lot out on your own. Had me laughing my ass off too. If I were you I would check out this book called "the system" by a guy who calls himself Doc Love. The man has interviewed over 10,000 women over the last 30 years and he has cut past all the bullshit of what girls say they want and finds out what kind of guys it is girls really go for and what it is that they really want. It has a lot to do with challenge, confidence, and control over yourslef. The book is honestly the best investment I think I've ever made because it's saved me $$$ with women and it's unbrainwashed me so much because you get the girl to chase you and if you get a girl with above a 50% interest level at first it gives you a flawless guide on how to raise it has unbrainwashed me so much it feels great.
I agree with most everything you say except the part that by being more of a jerk type character you can only land tough type chicks. I think if you refined what you've learned you would find most any women except the ones you would want to avoid (feministas, nagger bitches, etc) dont react well to the system. Infact most turn into sweet, giving, flexible femmenin-like creatures and treat you better than you'd believe just by working challenge the right way without being a jerk or anything.
I know I rambled but check it out man I think if you ever read the book you'd thank me because I dont think many people can encounter something that de-brainwashes you so much and shows you exactly what girls want and why. He's also got tons of free atricles around the net so check them out.
yeah your pretty much wrong. im a nice guy. im not a nice guy cause i want to get laid, im a nice guy so i dont look back on my life and say "wow im a douchebag." is that so horrible, like yeah im not the one getting laid as often as the asshole. but like thats just ass. if im desperate enough i can look at porn and jerk off. i want to get laid "right" (ie. not manipulating her or beating her) so whats the big deal if i have to wait. theres nothing wrong with being the nice guy.
on the other hand there is something wrong with being a pussy. if im constantly called at 4 in the morning to help _______ ________ (i left the name out on purpose) im probably going to sleep through the phone call, or say fuck off. if theyre in the middle of the desert and its the first time ill probably go get them. but patience has to have its limits. and id do it for a guy also. but heres why im a nice guy. cause im good at it and every girl i think needs a nice guy. and eventually ill get the real thing alot sooner than the assholes. so nice guys actually finish first. theyre just prepetually screwed over until then
>if im desperate enough i can look at porn and jerk off
Or if you need flesh there are always prostitutes- but porn and a strong right hand are a lot cheaper... allthough prostitutes don't have pop-ups...
Nice guys hmmm?Never knew i was one at first.Lol always thought i was an ok guy just good enough always was lol.I was dead off it became less and less subtle when my femal friends were like I love you your my "Nic" and such like that i was a great friend lol I got all the old Nice guy bull shit and refused to reform lmao i got jobs and my current one lmfao my position is Doormat lol I ask my boss for more hours he says no lol but then expects me to fly in on a dime to cover his ass when he cant make his shift and you know what i do i tried to fix my nice guy (aw fuck who am i kidding), DOORMAT persona but then i always fuck up not saying my life was terible but its been fucked up so my cure for the nicety bull shit im cursed with lol was some good ol liquer lol if i was a few years older and could legally own boos id prolly be strung out in a ditch somewhere lol aye
*any tips to fix this dumb nice guy
KamakazyComissar@yahoo.com
*any tips to fix this dumb nice guy
KamakazyComissar@yahoo.com
Tips? How about some sentence structure and correct spelling?
While we're at it how about spelling kamikaze correctly. Much less spell commissar right?
Or how about actually reading the article? Now there's a start.
Rolo
Theres one thing this man is right about...and thats for all you nice guys to stop being so defensive and righteous, and realize that it's not a question of character or inner beauty, its only a matter of differing biological roles...it sounds silly, but it's true. He is doing you a favor...don't go out and be rude or mean to women, but understand the game...because once you win the game, then you will experience the kind of emotional fulfillment you seek, when her heart is yours.
I totally agree!! However, I did try to play the part of Freud boy once on Valentines Day by giving my "admired young lady" a card to try to get her to cheer up. Well see... since Valentines Day is one of those times that you can get away with all of the card sending, I tried to get this girl who I know is very timid of guys to open up to me a little. This did allow her see me for the real, honest me (even though I found out that she later threw the card away).
Anyways, sometimes when a guy tries to "fix" the problems that he thinks a young lady might be struggling with, I think that this is taking an initiative of courage that few other guys would be willing to risk- even if the guy who does so fails at his goal. Sometimes the female might actually realize that she finnaly ran into a guy who is TRULY willing to bond with her despite her "basketcase" confusions... perhaps to build her up and make her a better woman. A possible relationship could grow from it. Personally, I think that there is nothing wrong with a dedicated guy who tries to do this (as long as it is done so reasonably). I admire the fellow men who attempt to do so. :)
This is soooo true!!!!
(Speaking from a girls perspective)
You made good observations that are just cold facts.
(This is the part that I've been wondering about myself..)
If nice guys really cared, then why do they support bad living? A "Nice Guy" would be there maybe the first three times, but after thos three chances, cut off all ties with her unless she changes her way of living.. ;) but that's my opinion!!
Well i see alot of mixed messages here,ive recently broke up with my boyfriend he acted the nice guy the caring,person to talk to who would love me for me,and it was all alot of bullshit,he cheated on me after telling me all these stories of ex's cheating on him,he took me for a fool which i didnt deserve.Now im left thinking is there such thing as a nice guy,maybe im asking for too much to have someone who just loves me for me,is kind,caring and faithful.I think if there are guys liek that they shuld be proud of themselves and not change for anyone.
I used to date jerks until one day it got so bad I left and spent a lot of time not dating anyone and thinking about why I winded up with jerks. Well, I don't date jerks anymore, just nice guys. I'm also now very choosy about my friends. I have limited time and no time at all to hang out without someone who isn't a great person. A very good friend once said to, "You don't have room in your life for what you need because it's filled with what you settle for instead."
Guys the most important thing is confidence. You can be very manly, very good looking but if you lack the confidence chances are that you will be the nice guy. You cannot say no and all that. As you said be the good person there is nothing wrong with that. And for gods sake remember that she is only one person in a world of million others. Don't self actualize your self in her.
Also, why do you like the nice girl outgoing girl instead of the shy girl. The same reason why she likes the bad boys.
One more thing, when you are trying to reform don't get your self caught up in the I have to be myself thing. You can be good but refuse others when you want to and get the girl you want. Be a man stand up tell her to get lost when she deserves and she (who is probably an attractive girl with her head up in the clouds) will come down to earth. And if she does not find yourself another nice girl to play with.
Couple of things to add
Girls will always know you are a good person. First, they have more experiences with guys than you have with girls. They are hit on by so many guys every day. Second, they are women they have a natural intution of figuring out people. Even a family album in your place would do it. But, if you have a back bone they will appreicate especially if they are after their mid twenties with lots of experiences. And if they have are not mature enough forget them there is no waste of time. You are a good person so what most people are. They know it is not very enjoying to be with the bad ones. but what can they do there are very with good guys with back bones so they spend time with the less caring ones. After all, why do you go for the outgoing nice ones but not the very ugly antisocial ones.
but once they end up with you chances are that you will have a good relationship. Moreover, chances are that you are not a nice guy anymore than but a good partner. So enjoy your selfishness. You want sex too like any other male. Embrace it, I mean how different is your sexual desires than other males.
come on guys just fucking stand up get the girl be a man. It's pathetic to read guys comments about these nice guy thing get over it. go to the gym, run, play a sport get a hobby spend time for yourself. Get antideprassant if you have to (tough, this may ruin your sexual abilities be careful). There is no fucking thing wrong with you. You are not born with a curse or anything but you have a lack of self confidence even if you admit or not. Just get the girl.
She called because her boyfriend was mistreating her and ignoring her. I listened to her cries for help for 30 minutes at a time. She said she likes me as a friend and that she wants to stay friends. The level-headed friend urged her to go out with me. We went out, as friends.
Now I saw this article.
I am going to be a nice, nice, friend. And then I am going to find her when she's really down, and get her drunk, and fuck her brains out.
Sincerely,
Nice guy doormat.
Couple of things to add
Girls will always know you are a good person.
Are you familiar with the name Ted Bundy?
I think he meant 'fuck her brains out' in the figurative :)
wow, tonight was a strange night. basically that whole essay happend between me and this girl. her boyfriend freaks out, she comes crying to me and i make everything better. a few nights ago him and her got in a huge fight, he told her to fuck off and drove off leaving her about a mile from home. she got home and called me crying and we talked for hours. of course she ended it with the classic god i'm so lucky to have you as a friend, i don't know where i'd be without you. she is the classic nice girl. she has problems, but i just always figured who doesn't, i can look past that. i also always have the train of thought that i love her so much more then her jerk boyfriend. so today i went over by her to talk, maybe figuring to cheer her up after her breakup, and when i got there he was there. now this is after he returned the stuff she had left at his house and went through the motions of a normal break up. somehow he sweet talked her again and i feeling a ray of hope that i'd have a chance with her was crushed again. so i came home feeling sorry for myself and decided to look online..i never actuly thought of this as such a common thing..when it seems like alot more people are as dumb as i have been, it was kind of comforting. i unlike the article said do have respect for myself, and i do stand up for myself. however i also love her unconditionally and will never refuse help or even wait a second to think about giving it. and now after reading this, and some of the comments i actuly understand an error in my whole concept of a relationship. i never understood that i'd never be noticed by being the friend. i just had figured it hadn't happend yet and that the right girl would notice all my efforts. i have a backbone or spine, whatever. and i'm not going to do this anymore. i've always hated the jerk boyfriends, and i refuse to ever be one, but i'm also done being a doormat. i don't know what i'm going to do about my situation i'm currently in, but i'm going to get out of it.
Well, well. We've got soem really brainy people here. Got it all figured out have we? One says this, the other says that, really inspirational. But let me ask a question, who gives a crap. You could sit there and talk and give your fancy advice all you want but when it comes down to it without "nice girls and guys" you asshole guys would be S.O.L "getting some" and probably blow your heads off with a twelve gauge and you idiot women would be over dosing on any number of over and "under" the counter drugs, or cutting yourself cuz you "don't have nobody to talk to." Tear. Tear. Bottom line: There will always be "Nice guys and Girls" around so that incredibly undeserving and stupid people can rule the dating world and give out all this "wonderful" advice while never believing a damn word of it.
Dear "enlightened nice guy and doormart",
Welcome to the club. Let us know what you managed to change, if anything. Your situation is my situation, is everyone's situation. Done being Nice Guy? Are you sure? Check up on yourself, see if you changed.
My nice girl got back with her boyfriend, 2 days ago. She used to call daily, 2 to 3 times, now she stopped calling. I stopped calling.
Things are good when you see things clearly, aren't they!
Let us know.
But let me ask a question, who gives a crap.
You do Josh. You care deeply. You stay awake nights thinking about this. It eats away at your very soul. Know how I can tell? You bothered to respond. If you didn't care, we'd never know you were here.
By the way, if you ask a question, it should end with a question mark.
You could sit there and talk and give your fancy advice all you want
I can? I have your permission? Great. I'll get right on it.
but when it comes down to it without "nice girls and guys" you asshole guys would be S.O.L "getting some" and probably blow your heads off with a twelve gauge and you idiot women would be over dosing on any number of over and "under" the counter drugs, or cutting yourself cuz you "don't have nobody to talk to."
This gets soooo close to be relevant. Quite a bit shy of being coherent though.
Bottom line: There will always be "Nice guys and Girls" around so that incredibly undeserving and stupid people can rule the dating world and give out all this "wonderful" advice while never believing a damn word of it.
Nice Guys and Nice Girls do not rule the dating world. Neither do Jerk Boyfriends. All of these people have a tendency to believe that what they see is all there is. They are wrong.
Obviously i've been thinking alot about this sort of stuff if i came on a website like this. yay for google searches. i still don't know what i'm doing about my current situation with this nice girl. there's nothing i'd like to do more then to get this girl away from this jerk, but i don't know how it'll play out. kicking his ass is always a possibility, but i normally refrain from taking out someone 6 inches smaller then me and 30lbs lighter...actuly come to think of it...i wanta know why he's the ass in this situation...by steriotypes i should be the jerk. oh well.
tonight i told her that she had no self respect for getting back with him again because she just accepts the emotional rollercoaster he puts her on. she took that alot harder then i expected so i just let her think about that for awhile. after that we hung out like normal, and ended up meeting up with her boyfriend later and then i left for basketball so i could have cared a less at that point. advice from the reformed nice guys would be appreciated, however i'm sure it's going to be something along the lines of find a different girl. when as you know all i really want is this one.
advice from the reformed nice guys would be appreciated, however i'm sure it's going to be something along the lines of find a different girl. when as you know all i really want is this one.
Naturally, you want that one.
In my case, the moment I realize that my ROI (return of investment) is not worth the effort, I bail out pretty fast.
I've dated a plenty and my heart has been shattered more than once. But there is no need to go about picking up the pieces, because quite frankly, cheesy as the saying is, there is plenty of fish in the sea.
And the more you date and realize what you want, the more fine tuned you become in knowing what you want. You also become more fine tuned in picking up the red flags, the bullshit, the hassle and the annoyances that the new person is displaying.
The moment trouble is in the air, there is really no point to stick around--she will make your life hell. Salute, strap on the chute and jump out, soldier.
leo
i compeltely agree with that. that is what happend with my last two girlfriends. 1 lied and i ditched, and the other wasn't worth my time so i left her as well. i don't know if it's just my train of thought, or whatever, but there's no signs that she's not worth my time. we have so much common, which is rare for me anyways. i realize that there's more then one fish in the sea. it's not like i'm being stupid and saying she's the one or anything, but she is special. i want to figure out how to be a reformed nice guy, or 'together guy' as jason puts it.
i want to figure out how to be a reformed nice guy, or 'together guy' as jason puts it.
Simple.
You get the fuck out of Dodge.
She is not going to change. This ties back with the whole self-respect advice from the article. If you're not happy about something in your life, you change it. Change is hard, yes, but essential.
So, even if you told her "that she had no self respect for getting back with him again because she just accepts the emotional rollercoaster he puts her on" and the only thing she did was to take "that alot harder then i expected so i just let her think about that for awhile" and still nothing changes, you're wasting your time.
If she changes, she knows where to find you.
If she doesn't change, you've avoided yourself the hassle of getting involved with someone beyond repair. And by "beyond repair" I mean that you're wasting your time. They cannot be salvaged.
Of course you don't want to let her go. You're infatuated with your version of her, which is not who or what she is.
Other than saying that, the article itself outlines exactly what one should do. But that involves change. And change is hard.
leo
i like the reference to Rounders. that was nice.
yeah, it's like all this stuff i kind of know but like you said change is hard. it's just something i gota work on. thanks for the advice, i plan on taking it. i don't feel like wasting my time anymore.
I completly agree with this 'nice guys/girls security issue.' I have known for a long time that this cycle were the good guy does not get the good girl and vice versa. I would like to stress the latter! I happen to be one of those 'good girls.'...but I am not the type who will be tossed aside and walked on like a doormat. In fact I am searching for the 'good guy' my entire life. To no avail I have learned that NEITHER good or bad guy are interested. It seems that I am one of those cases where I am a 'good girl' who is secure with herself and knows what she wants. Believe me I will NOT put up with any abuse that I see around me. Unfortunity this has left me stuck. First of all the 'bad guys' are intriged with me but immediatly lose interest because I refuse to play to their antics. That I am not surprised in and am glad to get their '2rd brain' of my tail. However the good guys dont even know I exist or acknowledge my presense. It seems that 'mr right' does not even have the sense to know what is right in front of him. Now it's just aggrivating me. It seems that you 'nice guys' do a lot of complaining about the nice girls not being interested in you. Well I would like to say that I believe that nice guys are not interested in the nice girls. I think this is a topic that is not brought up nearly as much as it should be. To be honest, I will be turning 22 in a month and have never had a bf or any guy show any type of interest in me whatsoever. And for some reason this does not compute with me. Besides being a "nice girl," I am not afraid to admit that I am pretty, (unlike what sterotypical low self esteem girls think of themselves) extremly intellegent, and unique. However, my problem is that guys are not cheifly interested in a girl with a mind. I tend to think that I am living proff of exactly what a typical nice guy would want his nice girl to be. Which is exactly why I cant attract a nice guy.
This past year I have lived in an environment with 3 different couples. What I notice is the nice guys end up with these bad girls who push and boss them around. To be honest, its like actually watching those female friends turn into the embodiment of your worst nightmare...YOUR MOTHER! To be honest I don't know how you can put up with all of the nagging and controling mechanisms. After viewing my friends turn into the hell spawn that embodies my mother I decided that I would never ever walk all over a guy like that. Alas it is true, the nice guys do end up with the nagging house wives who were once sexy mean girls in their youth. The truth is, most girls try to be so appealing so they can wrap a guy around their finger. I, for one cannot understand why this happens. One thing is for sure..that this "nice girl" who wont put up with crap, ends up alone in the end.
Well I just wasted 5 years of my life being the "Nice Guy" Only to find her with ANOTHER typical guy the other night. I ALMOST snapped...but I remembered this article, and just walked away. Haven't talked to her since, and don't plan on it ever again, time to move on, and with a different attitude!
I know a friend who is not very attractive but gets all the girls with his assholness.Man seriously,he's playng three BEAUTYFUL girls and they're all aware of each other and tryng to compete for his love and affection.He is a self proclaimed jackass with girls!We both liked this one girl and we decided that may the best man win.I really liked one of the girls he is currently playng.One night me,him,her and her little brother were all out in the park,the little brother asked HIM for some money to buy a snowcone but he refused.My friend saw his OTHER girl and ditched this one that I liked.It started to rain so I said "I can't belive he ditched us".We all went back to my place to dry up.Me and her talked for about an hour.like an idiot I listended to all her problems and stuff and she says "you're so considerate and caring",i thought I was going to reel her in and there was no way I was gonna lose to this asshole.Anyways we went back to the park and the I was kind(stupid)to buy him one for TWO dollars and I gave him a 5 and the little fucker litterally runs off and spends it all.And my one friend shows up and we all went back to his place.when I asked a mutual friend to ask her if she likes me she says "Oh he's such a NICE GUY but he's only like my little brother cute""he's so nice and caring but I don't like him like that" and she says she really likes my friend and was actually cryng over him cause he ditched her but she still liked him and was willing to do whatever it takes to win him over. So my one friend shows up and says sorry,man but I won so buh bye. They both speed of and he uses the money he never shared to buy her dinner, they made out afterwards.That's living proof how much women LOVE assholes.When he comes back he says i can't belive I got her by ditching her in the rain and being such an ASSHOLE huh huh,oh well.Us nice guys are getting fed up with this shit,either wise up or we're gonna become extinct.And you ask why so few nice guys still exist.That night completely inspired me to join the ranks of many assholes and get the girl.I will ask my friend to teach me more of his ways.
Congratulations. You haven't learned a God damn thing.
Yes, I am a nice guy who is not afraid of a woman who is smart. I enjoy the intellectual type. I like deep intellectually stimulating conversation. I am a nice looking guy, well built and not intimidated by a woman with a brain. So, if you are really serious about meeting a nice guy then email me at mrdanzinger1@yahoo.com
Have a great day,
D
First, I have to say I am throughly DISGUSTED by your spiel that such guys do not deserve sympathy. ALL people, no matter how imperfect, deserve sympathy as long as they don't intentionally cause harm or hurt to others (Call this touchy-feely PC Bullshit if you want, I don't care. I call such behavior morally indefensible.)
As for the rest - I question whether any "nice girl" as you describe is really such a nice girl after all. My idea of "nice" is that people treat others the way they themselves want to be treated in the same circumstances. End Of Story! Therefore, for all your words, I find them ultimately lacking substance even if they are true.
Also, let me address a deeper question: Why have a girlfriend at all? Answer: You NEVER do! Anybody who even wants a girl (or any girl who "wants" a guy)...that's your hormones talking, notyour brain! Those hormones cloud your jugement - in effect, you are on DRUGS when you think you want a girl (or for girls, a guy)! BUT..if you DO feel you "have" to have a certain someone...do not even think about dating anyone (male or female) who is less than 27 years old. 30 and up and especially 35 and up are preferable, but under NO circumstances should they be under 27. They almost NEVER want a serious relationship in the first place. You will rarely run into the problems describe above with 30+ people, and your life will be much more secure and emotionally, intellectually, and spiritually richer for it.
here i am again because of gothic_pride... anyways, i guess its okay if you want to hate anime and stuff but do you really need to make a website about it? it makes people upset and even if its okay to hate anime, dont make it into something its not. i like anime and all and i guess its pretty good to pass some spare time ... but to hablaba whats with bite my shiny metal whatever? i dont think you have one... here you make anime sound bad but in some parts it might be and most parts its not otherwise it wouldnt be published. truthfully i dont like being here because i dont like hating and stuff but anyways, if you hate anime then dont bother writing about it or looking at it. if you like it then read it but, you dont need all of this. the arguments dont make sense!
First, I have to say I am throughly DISGUSTED by your spiel that such guys do not deserve sympathy. ALL people, no matter how imperfect, deserve sympathy as long as they don't intentionally cause harm or hurt to others
Fine. They shouldn't expect it from me. You'll have to pick up my slack.
As for the rest - I question whether any "nice girl" as you describe is really such a nice girl after all.
Congratulations. You caught a major point of the article. Welcome to the club. You'll find that there aren't a lot of members, sadly.
Therefore, for all your words, I find them ultimately lacking substance even if they are true.
Since the article has challenged your worldview, instead of objecting it outright, go back and read it again. Process it. It has made you angry. It has prompted an emotional reponse. Go back and think about why that is. It will tell you much more about yourself than it will about me. I have thought about your mail and reviewed my beliefs. I happy to say they have strengthened.
Also, let me address a deeper question: Why have a girlfriend at all? Answer: You NEVER do!
I don't? Well, I know a certain young lady who has a great deal of explaining to do.
Anybody who even wants a girl (or any girl who "wants" a guy)...that's your hormones talking, notyour brain! Those hormones cloud your jugement - in effect, you are on DRUGS when you think you want a girl (or for girls, a guy)
Biological drives are powerful, but human beings are not simply creatures of instinct or chemistry. Or do you have 20 kids to assure that your genes are passed on?
BUT..if you DO feel you "have" to have a certain someone...do not even think about dating anyone (male or female) who is less than 27 years old. 30 and up and especially 35 and up are preferable, but under NO circumstances should they be under 27. They almost NEVER want a serious relationship in the first place. You will rarely run into the problems describe above with 30+ people, and your life will be much more secure and emotionally, intellectually, and spiritually richer for it.
There's a problem here. I am 274 years old. And frankly, I find that women don't really mature until they're 78, and they're not really interested in a serious relationship until they're well into their 90s. As you can imagine, this quite limits my options.
here i am again because of gothic_pride... anyways, i guess its okay if you want to hate anime and stuff but do you really need to make a website about it?
I guess it's okay to love anime, but do you really need to make a website about it? The answer is no, you do not. But you do anyway.
it makes people upset and even if its okay to hate anime, dont make it into something its not.
All of these sites that are for anime deeply upset anime haters. Will you take down all the pro-anime sites if we take down all the anti-anime ones?
truthfully i dont like being here because i dont like hating and stuff but anyways, if you hate anime then dont bother writing about it or looking at it. if you like it then read it but, you dont need all of this. the arguments dont make sense!
If you don't like being here, kindly identify the member of CoN who is holding your family hostage and forcing you to stay, and we'll ask him to go outside and get some fresh air. If you hate reading about anime-hate, don't bother writing about it or looking at it.
Your argument don't make sense. Particularly in a forum that isn't discussing anime.
That is a really interesting article. I am studying the concept of whether nice guys finish last for uni in Sydney! I do think however that nice guys cannot change to be jerks. Sometimes I ask myself whether a guy is genuine and is really nice, or whether it is just put on. However overtime guys (just like girls) show their true colours. I do agree that doormats are not attractive. When an overly nice guy likes me I find it hard to have a normal friendship because they always tend to cross the line, however I cannot stand guys who are up themselves. That is the biggest turn off ever. Confidence is sexy in a person, buy egos are just plain wrong!!
I'm not old or seasoned or anything...I just tried a lot of shit (lol) and I found that the best thing is to just be yourself...I tried the "nice guy" thing (and it goes without saying that that didn't turn out so well); then I tried the asshole thing and that was even worse
Now I'm just myself (take it or leave it)...some girls like it, some girls don't...Self-confidence is the key; not this other bullshit...if you're nice, be nice...if you're a dick, be a dick...If you don't like how you are, change it...as long as you believe in yourself, good things will happen (and that goes for anything, not just chicks)
Any guy is a Nice Guy when he finds the girl he loves. Usually this girl is smart funny attractive and has many other good qualities. That's why..most girls like that already have boyfriends. Not all of them are jerks either.. But with a girl like that--obviously other guys are gonna like her. But frankly what i'm saying is: if you're not a Nice Guy..then you dont love her.
your words have hit home. On so many levels. I really like how you think.
I read this. are you saying I have to become a total jerk or asshole? I have to be mean and rude to women all the time? then they will be nice to me. especilly to the most attractive pretty women.
This article has opened my eyes and made me look at my self and my frustrations differently. I am a doormat, I have lowself esteem and I have listened to women whine and cry all my life. I am that guy that they call, and while I decieved myself and thought I was playing hero, I am actually fucking up my chances of scoring. Thank you for this article, I will now love, respect and velue myself more. There has been little progress in my life because I am passive and I jave gotten tired of being labelled the smart guy, I will focuse solely now on valuing myself, building confidence and adding value to my life. I will interact with women in a respectfull manner but I won't take shit or compromise myself anymore. Thanx again for your bruttal honesty.
This article started with so much promise, but then just nosedived into Nice Guy rhetoric. It's just like you say, Nice Guys never know they're not actually nice.
There's only one flaw in the Nice Guy mindset: Women are not vending machines that will eventually distribute sex once enough Niceness coins have been inserted.
In contradiction to this article, neither are they fish in an aquarium -- they won't have their sexual output drowned in Niceness if you feed them too much.
If a woman isn't in a relationship with you, and you're a self-confessed Nice Guy who is pursuing that relationship, it's probably because you never actually tried to enter a relationship with her. You're just hoping that eventually once all other options are exhausted, she'll fall into your lap because everyone else is just so horrible.
All these trials and tribulations that the Nice Guy thanklessly puts himself through are actually just things that normal friends do for each other with no thought of repayment, except for maybe a playful "you owe me one".
The difference is that the Nice Guy is a sociopath.
This article started with so much promise, but then just nosedived into Nice Guy rhetoric. It's just like you say, Nice Guys never know they're not actually nice.
If you accuse me of "nosediving" into Nice Guy Rhetoric, you should perhaps give an example of me using this rhetoric, rather than immediately write "it's just like you say." Do you see the contradiction?
There's only one flaw in the Nice Guy mindset: Women are not vending machines that will eventually distribute sex once enough Niceness coins have been inserted.
There are several flaws in the Nice Guy mindset, and there are several flaws in yours. Nothing I said is contrary to your "assuming women as vending machines" analogy. I do however, find it strange that you focus on sex. I argue that this Nice Guy mindset is inherently flawed in all aspects of the relationship.
In contradiction to this article, neither are they fish in an aquarium -- they won't have their sexual output drowned in Niceness if you feed them too much.
Please quote the article where it says that women will cave if they are giving sufficient Niceness. You may find it difficult, as it argues the opposite.
If a woman isn't in a relationship with you, and you're a self-confessed Nice Guy who is pursuing that relationship, it's probably because you never actually tried to enter a relationship with her.
Or she doesn't like you. But I do agree that the Nice Guy is not really pursuing a relationship, they're chasing an idealized/mythologized person that does not exist.
All these trials and tribulations that the Nice Guy thanklessly puts himself through are actually just things that normal friends do for each other with no thought of repayment, except for maybe a playful "you owe me one".
No. The Nice Guy/NIce Girl relationship is one of mutual enabling. My point is that the Nice Guys like to see themselves as the victims, as if they can't do anything about it.
The difference is that the Nice Guy is a sociopath.
I would say that the Nice Guy is somewhat egotistical, but sociopath is going too far. A sociopath is actually far more likely to fake the attributes the girl desires in order to manipulate her.